Shivanand: How do you prove that vedas was given by god to rishi and it is true?
Swami Ram Swarup: In the whole world, there are two types of spiritual paths. One is God made and second is Man made. Vedas are not a book, but is a knowledge which emanates direct from Formless, Almighty, immortal God in the beginning of every creation. Ancient as well as present Rishi-Munis, learned persons realized the fact of knowledge of Vedas emanating from God and generating the same in the heart of four Rishis. They realized the said fact after maintaining Brahmacharya, studying Vedas, doing hard practice of Ashtang Yog philosophy, performing daily Yajyen from ved mantras and name jaap of God. The Rishis then attained Samadhi as mentioned in Yog Shastra sutra 4/29, 30, 31 in samadhi. The ved mantras generated in them and they also realized God. They realized that God is true and the knowledge of Vedas emanates from true God is also true. In Shatpath Brahmin Granth, the Rishi told us that the said Rishis who have realized God in Samadhi, always tells, speaks truth and ordinary man speaks lie. I am also pasting my following articles for your information, please-
The creation is eternal and automatic. There is no date of creation of the following:
(A) Almighty God who is alive, immortal, formless, creates, nurses and destroys the universe. He never indulges in any maya, mahamaya, illusion and deeds (good or bad. Yajurveda Mantra 40/8 and Yog shastra Sutra 1/26 also refer)
(B) Soul: Soul is alive, the purest, away from sins etc. but illusion covers the soul due to which soul forgets his original form and hence remains in sorrows, problems etc.
C) Prakriti: Non-alive and has three qualities. i.e., Raj, tam, Satva. At a proper time, the power of God acts in prakriti and the universe is created. So the creation is eternal and automatic.
Raj, Tam and Satva are the three qualities of prakriti. When the said gunnas remain idle dormant i.e., do not work, then combination of these three gunnas(qualities) in dormant stage is called prakriti and this time is called “final destruction” of the universe. When an appropriate time comes, the creation is to be started again. Then the power of God works in the above three gunnas i.e., in the prakriti and immediately the creation starts. Rajo gunn is a sign of sensuousness etc., Tamo gunn signifies laziness and sato gunn signifies ego, pride. Our human body is also made of the said three gunnas.
Vedas tell that there are three eternal/immortal matters- first: Almighty God, second: souls, third: prakriti. Almighty God creates, nurses and destroys the universe and again creates it. The said process of creation is eternal/immortal/everlasting. Almighty God creates the universe from prakriti. When the raj, tam and satva gunnas of prakriti remain idle (dormant condition/inactive) then creation does not take place. At an appropriate time, a power of Almighty God acts in prakriti (i.e., in Raj, tam and satva gunnas). Immediately the process of creation starts and the first matter of prakriti is made which is called –Mahat i.e., mind; from Mahat- ahankar is made, from ahankar panch (5) tan matrayein, from panch (5) tanmatrayein, panch (5) mahabhoot are created. From panch mahabhoot, the entire matter of universe i.e., Sun, Moon air, water, our bodies, bodies of other living beings etc., are created. The whole creation is thus created from prakriti and remains still (in active) like a statue. This creation is called non-sexual creation. In the said creation, the young human bodies are created which are neither old nor babies. Then by the power of God, in the said bodies, breathing system (prann vaayu) starts operating. At last, God enters into the universe and immediately all the humans and other living beings become alive and start functioning. Similarly, the non-alive matters like Sun, moon, earth, air, water etc., start their respective functions.
Creation, Science, worldly matters etc., is not possible until the same is created by someone. Secondly, knowledge is attained when knowledge is imparted by someone.
Rigved mantra 10/129/ 1-6 throw light about creation that at that time, there was nothing and no living beings did exist. So there was no learned acharya who could give the knowledge to the newly created living beings like parents who educate the children to make them able to speak language and to know about the matters like crow, animals, chapati, ghee, sun, moon i.e., all matters of the world. See, if a newly born baby is managed to live in dense jungle and nursed well but he is not given education about the worldly matters etc. i.e., mathematics, science, animals, sun, moon etc., then even at the young age of 20-25, 30 years, he will not be able to speak any language and when he will be brought out of the cave of dense jungle and will be asked about the sun, moon, animals, birds before him, then he will not be able to reply because he was not given the said knowledge.
When we see towards sun, moon, air, space, human body etc. It is clearly understood that the said creation has not been made by any human being but Almighty God, from whom the knowledge of four Vedas emanates. In Vedas, the knowledge right from straw to Brahma has been mentioned. So in the beginning of non-sexual earth, the Vedas originated in the heart of four rishis: Agni, Vaayu, Aditya and Angira, and from the rishis the knowledge of science, deeds and worship along with every matter is being given to the public by which the public became educated scientist and wrote books, etc.
In Vedas as well as in fourth chapter of Yog Shastras of Rishi Patanjali, it is mentioned that those who do not believe in God are provided more and more facilities by nature and such people get spoiled etc.
On the contrary those who worship God, they naturally try to kill their desires and accordingly under the law, nature, help them to follow the true path to realize the God.
It is also pertinent to mention here that in Vedas, there is no mention of avtarwad or any proper noun, please. Vedas do not even contain any story or past, present or future life of anyone. Vedas contain knowledge i.e., entire science, form of deeds/duties and worship of God. Actually Vedas give knowledge right from straw to Brahma (God) of entire universe.
All four Vedas tell to worship a formless, Almighty, omnipresent, omniscient God who creates, nurses and destroys the universe. God was one, is one and shall ever remain one. He is unchangeable, unchallengeable and beyond description. He has unlimited qualities and thus unlimited names but is one. Because He is Almighty and needs no help of anyone to create, nurse and destroy the universe therefore no need to take avtar.
We cannot say first creation because creation, nursing and destruction and again creation, nursing and destruction is an eternal and everlasting process. Therefore its date cannot be fixed being eternal process.
I mean to say that the lord of creation i.e., Formless, Almighty God says in Vedas that without knowing His Vedas and without practicing Yajyen, Yoga philosophy, nobody can know Him (God). We cannot say first creation because creation, nursing and destruction and again creation, nursing and destruction is an eternal and everlasting process. Therefore its date cannot be fixed being eternal process.
God has made universe and blessed us with human body to do pious deeds to attain salvation only. He has not made any heaven or hell. All have to face the result of their deeds, good or bad here only, even by taking rebirth. (Rigved mantras 10/135/1,2 refer)
God has not only made universe but has also given knowledge of four Vedas where answers to your and everyone’s questions have been given. There are four Vedas:
1. Rig Veda – gives knowledge of science, matter of the universe like sun, moon, air, body etc., etc.
2. Yajurved – gives knowledge of all the deeds and duties to be performed by men, women, students, leaders, king, agriculturist etc., etc., etc.
3. Samved – gives knowledge how to worship God who gives peace and long happy life etc. In this way, details of Yoga philosophy, qualities, supreme deeds and nature of the God are also given.
4. Atharvaved – gives details of God, medical science and details of medicine etc.
Actually in four Vedas there is unlimited knowledge. Yajurved mantra 40/8 says that God is everywhere, is Almighty, formless, devoid of nervous system, purest, away from sins and does not have to face any result of any karmas (deeds), knows every soul, knows what is in everyone’s mind, no body has made God, but God creates universe, has given the eternal knowledge of four Vedas and always gives the said knowledge at the beginning of every universe to know the science and deeds to all concern. Similarly four Vedas say about God that God is an omnipresent, omniscient, formless, beyond imagination and beyond calculation. Actually God has unlimited qualities. There is only one God who creates, nurses, destroys the universe and recreates. Atharvaved mantra 4/1/1 also says that God gives the knowledge of Vedas at the beginning of the earth to four Rishis of non-sexual creation. And thereafter only public listens Vedas through Rishis- Munis as yet and become learned. Rig-Veda gives knowledge of Almighty, Yajurved gives knowledge of karmas (deeds), Samved tells about worship-Yoga philosophy and Atharvaved about medicines and God. Actually all Vedas commonly says about God also, so this is about Vedas in short. But the knowledge of Vedas is endless.
It is a fundamental law that knowledge is always given by somebody. Otherwise knowledge can’t be gained at any cost. If a new born baby is nursed well in a dense jungle and is not educated then he will not be able to gain any knowledge even if he becomes young or old. So we have to think about the origin of the knowledge prevalent in the world today. In this connection the Vedas themselves say that God gives this knowledge to four Rishis. As said by Rishi Patanjali in Yog shastra sutra 1/26, God is the first Guru of the four Rishis. Yajurved mantra 31/7 also refers. This is all in short about Vedas.
The Vedas are not a book, rather it is a knowledge originated in the heart of Rishis. At the time of beginning of the earth those Rishis preached Vedas by mouth and all others remembered the same orally. At that time there was no pen, pencil, paper, etc. This process of studying Vedas orally remained till Mahabharata time. Muni Vyas too remembered Vedas traditionally by heart. Then Muni Vyas for the first time wrote the Vedas on Bhoj patra about 5300 years ago. In 16th century when printing press came into existence then the Vedas were printed. Still Vedas are not those which have been printed but those which are preached by mouth by an Acharya/yogi and the printed Vedas are called Sanhita.
Now if somebody worships a statue etc., then it is their own creation please but Vedas deny. According to Vedas the best worship of the God is Yajyen for which all Vedas are self-proof. Yajurved mantra 31/16 says that the learned persons worship God by Yajyen.
So many people have asked me that most of the scholars/preachers of different religion state that their religion incorporates all matters of the world including science. What about Vedas? I wrote so many Ved Mantras describing science matters therein. For example, Yajurved Mantra 3/6 states
“Ayam Gauhu Swaha Pitram Puraha Prayan Mataram Prishnihi
This earth revolves around the Sun in the space and it also rotates on its own axis. Vedas are eternal like God because Vedas emanate from God. Now, according to Vedas, this present creation is about 1 Arab, 96 crores, 8 lakh 53,111 years old. So are theVedas but as said in Rigved Mantra 10/191/3 the present creation is same as was the previous one and this process of creation is eternal. So are the Vedas which emanate from eternal God. This all concludes that Vedas are the oldest in this creation also and no other book of science, maths or pertaining to spiritualism is written before Vedas.
Like the above example of rotation and revolution of earth, the significance of whole present science is mentioned in Vedas. We can see that whatever is happening in the universe, is all according to the Vedas. For example, occurrence of six seasons, actions of Sun, moon, process of death, birth, worship, yoga philosophy, atomic energy, agriculture, animal husbandry, knowledge of politics, administration, architecture, solar energy, knowledge of home appliances like mixer, grinder, business rules, about men, women, children, marriage, Brahmacharya, education, clothes etc., etc., i.e., knowledge right from a straw to Brahma is all in Vedas. God is Almighty and has unlimited powers. So through His power He is able to originate the knowledge of Vedas in the heart of four Rishis without pencil, paper, help of mouth or any other worldly assistance.
We, i.e., the whole world depends on Almighty God but God is forever independent. That is why, He is God. We are the souls who reside in human bodies. We need assistance of senses, perceptions, mind and body to do deeds but not God.
Nowadays, so many saints are writing books. What is the background to write their books? Background is clear that they have first studied or listened the preach from their Gurus, keeping aside the matter of truth or falsehood. And after studying or listening the same, they became able to write the books. So this is also fundamental law, based on which, the ancient Rishis first listened Vedas and when they became learned then only they wrote the Vedic books like Valmiki Ramayana, six shastras, Mahabharat (Bhagwad Geeta), Upanishads, etc., etc. So, first the knowledge of Vedas is initiated in the universe and afterwards other books come into existence.
Somebody may say that human beings have knowledge by their nature to create anything like books etc., but we see that the newly born baby who is nursed in a jungle, in the absence of knowledge of a learned person, he becomes incapable to do anything. Thus, he can’t be M.A, M.Sc, doctor etc. So there are two types of the words and meanings. First, eternal which are from Almighty God and second, natural made by human beings. Eternal word meanings are always from Vedas i.e., from God. After listening/studying Vedas, human beings become learned and then too based on their own natural knowledge, they make their own words and meanings, literature etc. But it is very much clear that in the absence of knowledge of Vedas, no one can become learned. Nowadays, also people live in dense jungle and do not lead a civilized life because they are not learned as cited above. Vedas are not sects because they emanate direct from God and God is one for all human beings. God creates sun, moon, air, water, food etc., which are meant for the best use of all human beings for their long, happy life, so are the Vedas.
So all human beings must accept Vedas as an eternal knowledge from God, for the benefit of whole creation.
Secondly, we will have to concentrate on our study and mind on the fundamental law of nature that Knowledge is attained when it is given by somebody. The study of Vedas and study of ancient granths, shastras, upnishads etc., and listening and study of present learned Acharya of Vedas and the study of above article of creation reveals that when the power of Almighty God starts creation after ending the period of final destruction, all human beings of that creation are illiterate and ignorant etc., because all the learned of Vedas and Yoga philosophy were dead and in the said creation which is a non-sexual creation, all human-beings therefore, remain illiterate. That is why, at the beginning of all non-sexual creation, the God showers mercy on human-beings by generating the knowledge of four Vedas in the heart of four Rishis and thus the Rishis further gives it to Brahma and Brahma starts giving the same to the others. You see, the same knowledge traditionally is still attained by the learned acharya (Rigved mantra 10/109/1,2 and Yajurved mantra 40/10 refers). That is why, Patanjali Rishi in Yog shastra sutra 1/26 states that Almighty God is the Guru of four Rishis. Thereafter, Rishi-Muni in the capacity of Guru/acharya are spreading the knowledge of Vedas traditionally. I would also like to paste my one article as under-
REVERT BACK TO VEDAS
It is the essence of Vedic spiritualism that whenever an aspirant enters into it then learned acharya preaches him that Vedas are the divine voice of God, which by the power of God, are originated in the heart of four Rishis, at the beginning of each creation. Learneds who indulge in deep study of Vedas know that Vedas are alive knowledge which emanate directly from God and hence they have not been written by anyone on the earth, in the shape of a book. Since, the said knowledge is applicable to all humans right from the beginning of earth hence Vedas are not a sect.
Infact, Kapil Muni, after traditionally studying Vedas and realising the truth, after hard practice of Ashtang Yog, also states the said truth in his Sankhya shastra sutra 5/51 that Vedas are alive knowledge hence ved mantras wield the power and self-capability to make such faithful aspirants, who are involved in deep and sincere study of Vedas, to understand the meaning and idea of ved mantras. This is the reason that Kapil Muni states that Vedas are self-proof to justify the truth. To elaborate, knowledge given in ved mantra or any fact stated through ved mantras does not require to be validated/authenticated by other shastras or any other book [but like our Rishi-Munis, Rajrishis and their public used to study Vedas traditionally with faith and sincere efforts, being the Vedic order of Almighty God, for all human-beings, the said practice is not in vogue at present times].God knows when inhabitants of India would be able to adopt the said moral duties, entrusted by God, of studying and following the Vedas, which destroys all the effects of sorrows and makes our future bright with long life and also spreads international brotherhood along with other unlimited benefits.
Secondly, universe has been created about one Arab, ninety six crore, eight lakhs, fifty three thousand and one hundred and thirteen years ago.
So, logically, Vedas have also been created at this time-period. Rishi-Munis acquired Vedas’ knowledge by listening to Vedas traditionally from acharya and did agnihotra/yajyen, name jaap of God and Ashtang yog practice as preached in Vedas. In turn, they realised God and got the knowledge by doing pious deeds while leading the family life, making their future happy and bright, according to Vedas. Then they further educated people about the same because it has been the benevolent nature of every learned person, who gains Vedic knowledge and experiences divine pleasure, to share it with others. About five-six thousand years ago, Rishis wrote six shastras, Upnishads, Mahabharat (including Bhagwad Geeta) and Valmiki Ramayan much before other holy books, based on the knowledge of Vedas. All these great writers – the Rishis, have eulogised Vedas in their literary works and based on their experience have admitted that Vedas are the divine voice of God.
That is why, Kapil Muni in his Sankhya shastra sutra 1/66 and Patanjali Rishi in his Yog shastra sutra 1/7 have shared their experience to educate us that the preach of any Rishi (Mantradrishta Rishi) is also considered as a proof to reach at truth. And also the holy books written by the Rishis based on Vedic culture are also considered as proof called ‘Partah Pramann’, Vedas being Swatah Pramann. Is it not our bad luck that the said secrets of Vedas are now mostly unknown to people and at this juncture, so called preach of any modern saint (sant who is against the Vedas) which does not tally with Vedic culture and which is definitely considered by learned of Vedas as totally false/unauthentic, is being accepted happily by the innocent public? If we consider impartially then we would find that the said matter is definitely harmful to the society, being against the Vedas because it does not come within the parameter of Vedic authenticity. Now, question is that who will bell the cat?
Duly indulged in illusion and mostly intention being after the materialistic articles etc., hardly anybody spares the time to study the literary works of Rishis like Upnishads, Shastras, Nighantu, Ashtadhyayee, Shatpath Brahmin Granth and above quoted holy books which contain abundant proofs of ved mantras.
Hence, when one will fail to study these great literary works of Rishis, under the guidance of learned acharya of Vedas, then naturally anyone will cast doubt over the Vedas which implies non-awareness of Vedic knowledge. Nowadays, people study the so-called spiritual books written by ordinary people but not those written by Rishis. It shall not out of place to mention here that Atharvaved mantra 7/105/1 preaches us to study Vedas or to study the spiritual books written by Rishi-Munis. The mantra strongly stresses not to study such books which are written by ordinary people. This secret has been made unknown to the public by several saints, by stating that Vedas, Yajyen and yogabhyas are difficult and need not to be studied/performed. People do not know that God states to study Vedas and perform daily agnihotra/Yajyen, name jaap of God and practice of Ashtang yog under the expert guidance of learned acharya.
Due to ignorance of the same, people are not able to understand that they are doing sins by not obeying the God’s order of studying Vedas and doing yajyen etc. On the other hand, they are accepting the juicy lecture of saints, who are against the Vedas and who are mostly professional. Moreover, all the present sects along with their pious books have emerged about two thousand to two thousand and five hundred years ago. As compared to this, Vedas have been on this earth since One Arab, ninety six crore, eight lakhs, fifty three thousand and one hundred and thirteen years. As mentioned above, Vedas are not a book. That is why, it has become difficult to repose faith in Vedas, in the absence of deep study under guidance of learned acharya of Vedas and Ashtang Yog.
Yet, it is a well-known fact spread by the tapasvis, Rishis-Munis by their preach and above quoted spiritual books that Vedas are eternal and immortal knowledge which emanate directly from God. This fact is even supported by renowned scientists like Maxmuller and many others who believe in authenticity of Vedas. It is further a well-known fact that Vedas have been preserved in world libraries with respect and honour, accepting Vedas as first and the most ancient literature. I mean to say that Vedas are the first knowledge which came on the earth. It was spread orally through the tradition of acharya and disciple, right from the beginning of the earth, as mentioned above. So, Vedas were remembered by heart by everyone. About five thousand three hundred years ago, for the first time, Vyas Muniji, who himself remembered the Vedas by heart traditionally, wrote them on Bhojpatra for the benefit of mankind. He completed the said pious task on the day of poornnima, about five thousand three hundred years ago. Since, then the poornnima has been named and remembered as Vyas Poornnima. Further, when printing press came into existence in sixteenth century, the Vedas written on Bhoj patra by Vyas Muniji were printed in the form of book which is called “Samhita” and not ved. Samhita means collection of ved mantras which has been printed. Half of the intellectuals of the world believe Vedas to be the divine voice of God and yet half of the intellectuals believe that Vedas have been written by some great scientist who has no parallel to himself in the entire world. But learned of Vedas know that God is the scientist of all scientists and no one is born even equivalent to such God nor shall be born in future. Then what to talk about being above the God.
It is also pertinent to mention here that a part of Bheeshma parv of Mahabharat have been secluded, named and printed as Bhagwad Geeta (eighteen chapters). Infact, Yogeshwar Sri Krishna Maharaj has praised and eulogised Vedas in Bhagwad Geeta. The above stated facts are known only to learned of Vedas. The saints who are ignorant of the knowledge of Vedas are naturally ignorant of the Vedas’ knowledge contained in Bhagwad Geeta and are therefore compelled not to explain the shloka of Bhagwad Geeta, briefly and truly wherein the reference and truth of Ved mantras exists. Why? Because they have not studied Vedas.
However, most of the present literary works and most of the saints are reiterating the fact that Vedas are divine voice of God. In this connection, Almighty, omnipresent, formless God has already stated in Atharvaved mantra 12/5/40 that those who do not study Vedas but take a piecemeal (portion) of Ved mantras, only which suits them, by means of studying other books etc., or listening from anywhere else [not based on traditional study of Vedas] will be punished by me (God).
Isn’t it surprising that yet no one is taking the initiative to study Vedas. On the contrary, those deeds which are against the Vedas and promote blind faith are being done on large scale. To experience the truth, we will have to revert back to Vedas.
After studying the above, you may send your query again.