Harshad: We are stuck in cycle of birth and death. Our aim is to get salvation from this birth-and-death process. But what forced us to take 1st life (it would not be our will), as it contradicts our aim. If present life is an effect of past one, then what is the cause of 1st life? Is it so that “God takes virgin souls from some vessel (Nigod) and make them to go through a stream of first 84 lacks species, then the souls get chance to go in human species, and then cycle of birth and death starts” However, if after passing through 84 lacks species, if all human being get fundamentally same “Mind, intellect, etc”, how could they commit different karma? Is it that different environments(bharat kshetra, mahavideh kshetra, or airavatkhetra) which determine the intensity , impact, or quality of karma? It is well known that God almighty does all these at his will, but what is fundamental logic behind playing this game? What (and whose) purpose gets solved if any soul gets salvation?
Swami Ram Swarup: No question of first life please, soul and process of creation being eternal and everlasting i.e., soul has not been made from any matter and nothing can be made from soul. So, soul is eternal. Similarly God and Prakriti are eternal. Therefore the process of creation, nursing, destruction and again creation is also eternal and everlasting. So, the birth and death are also eternal and everlasting. It means it does not happen and shall never happen that soul takes first birth.
As regards, our will Vedas already tell that Almighty God is our Lord, we are free to do any pious deed or sin but result is awarded by God. So, where the scope remains to say that it would not be our will (Rigveda mandal 10, sukta 129 and Yajurveda mantra 7/48).
First and the unlimited lives have a cause to take birth and the cause is the deeds done by soul in any body of living being. The above quoted mantras state that based on previous lives’ deeds, God gives us human or any other living body to face the result of our previous lives’ good and bad deeds. In this connection, I paste my article on deeds below:-
Three types of Deeds
The present deeds are done when our five senses i.e., eyes, ears, nose, tongue and skin collect the outside worldly matter through seeing, listening, smelling, tasting and touching respectively. The matter is forwarded to mann. Mann thinks deeply and mann further forwards its conclusion to buddhi, intellect. Budddhi further sends it to soul. If buddhi is having the knowledge of Vedas through acharya and thus becomes the purest then the buddhi never accepts the illful decision of mind but the buddhi only sends his own pure decision to the soul. Thus, soul passes the pure order back to intellect (buddhi) to mind (mann) and mann to the karmendriyan to take action. If buddhi (intellect) is in influence of illusion, then it passes sinful views to soul and accordingly soul sends the message back in the above quoted sequence and karma indriyan does the sinful deeds.
Only a learned man or woman (soul) has command on mann, buddhi and senses. Otherwise, every soul has to act according to message received through mann and buddhi. So, until a devotee becomes learned of Vedas through acharya, no one can say that he has command on senses etc. Actually, he does deeds under the influence of mann and buddhi. When anyone takes sound sleep, it means his body is taking rest and not the soul. Soul never sleeps. A yogi is only empowered to come out of body and to enter into it again and no one else, please.
Atma remain in coma stage only after leaving the body in which stage, atma (soul) has no feelings, no desires etc., but because it is a stage of tammo gunn, so it never gives pleasure to soul. Soul when attains Samadhi and a person is called a yogi then in awakened stage the soul realizes no desire, no feelings etc., which gives divine pleasure to soul. Soul is the doer of good and bad deeds. That is why, soul bears the result of good and bad deeds in the shape of happiness and sorrows through non-live human-body. But body never feels sorrows etc. And if soul does not gain the Vedic knowledge and attain Samadhi, the soul will automatically feel sorrows etc., otherwise, how a non-alive body can feel sorrow or pleasure etc., without soul being within it.
No vessel but the soul, at the time of final destruction as well as leaving the body at the time of death, remains in the God and in the space respectively. Soul gets mind and intellect but along with chitta on which the effects of previous lives’ deeds are imprinted because then only the soul faces the result of previous lives’ deeds. So, physical point of view may state that mind and intellect may be same but working would never be same, because working depends on chitta vritti. It is only a small part of divine power of Almighty God which deal with karmas’ theory, but God has no will, please. The nursing of all living beings is done automatically and naturally. It does not require any will of Almighty God etc. It is Vedic eternal theory which should be known by every Indian, so as to destroy illusion.
No logic, no magic, no will, no intention but the process of creation, nursing and destruction is eternal, everlasting and is controlled by a fraction of power of Almighty God.
Salvation is personal matter of anyone. If a person follows Vedic path , discharges his moral duties faithfully, does daily worship like doing Yajyen/hawan , name jaap of God and hard Ashtang Yoga Practice then the person after attaining Samadhi, attains salvation. It is his personal matter.
dave: Dear respected swamiji pranam, I hope you don’t mind but I forgot to ask you as well, how do you respond to persons that state that Vedas were written by rishis and not God? I understand that they are gods knowledge.
Swami Ram Swarup: My blessings to you, my son.
Neither Almighty God nor any Rishi-muni, man, woman, saint etc., wrote the Vedas. It is knowledge which emanates directly from Almighty God and is originated in the heart of four Rishi. In this connection, I paste my article below:-
God has made universe and blessed us with human body to do pious deeds to attain salvation only. He has not made any heaven or hell. All have to face the result of their deeds, good or bad here only, even by taking rebirth. (Rigveda mantras 10/135/1,2 refer).
God has not only made universe but has also given knowledge of four Vedas where answers to your and everyone’s questions have been given. There are four Vedas:
1. Rig Veda – gives knowledge of science, matter of the universe like sun, moon, air, body etc., etc.
2. Yajurveda – gives knowledge of all the deeds and duties to be performed by men, women, students, leaders, king, agriculturist etc., etc., etc.
3. Samveda – gives knowledge how to worship God who gives peace and long happy life etc. In this way, details of Yoga philosophy, qualities, supreme deeds and nature of the God are also given.
4. Atharvaveda – gives details of God, medical science and details of medicine etc.
Actually in four Vedas there is unlimited knowledge. Yajurveda mantra 40/8 says that God is everywhere, is Almighty, formless, devoid of nervous system, purest, away from sins and does not have to face any result of any karmas (deeds), knows every soul, knows what is in everyone’s mind, no body has made God, but God creates universe, has given the eternal knowledge of four Vedas and always gives the said knowledge at the beginning of every universe to know the science and deeds to all concern. Similarly four Vedas say about God that God is an omnipresent, omniscient, formless, beyond imagination and beyond calculation. Actually God has unlimited qualities. There is only one God who creates, nurses, destroys the universe and recreates. Atharvaveda mantra 4/1/1 also says that God gives the knowledge of Vedas at the beginning of the earth to four Rishis of non-sexual creation. And thereafter only public listens Vedas through Rishis Munis as yet and become learned. Rig-Veda gives knowledge of Almighty, Yajurveda gives knowledge of karmas (deeds), Samveda tells about worship-Yoga philosophy and Atharvaveda about medicines and God. Actually all Vedas commonly says about God also, so this is about Vedas in short. But the knowledge of Vedas is endless.
It is a fundamental law that knowledge is always given by somebody. Otherwise knowledge can’t be gained at any cost. If a new born baby is nursed well in a dense jungle and is not educated then he will not be able to gain any knowledge even if he becomes young or old. So we have to think about the origin of the knowledge prevalent in the world today. In this connection the Vedas themselves say that God gives this knowledge to four Rishis. As said by Rishi Patanjali in Yoga shastra sutra 1/26, God is the first Guru of the four Rishis. Yajurveda mantra 31/7 also refers. This is all in short about Vedas.
The Vedas are not a book, rather it is a knowledge originated in the heart of Rishis. At the time of beginning of the earth those Rishis preached Vedas by mouth and all others remembered the same orally. At that time there was no pen, pencil, paper, etc. This process of studying Vedas orally remained till Mahabharata time. Muni Vyas too remembered Vedas traditionally by heart. Then Muni Vyas for the first time wrote the Vedas on Bhoj patra about 5300 years ago. In 16th century when printing press came into existence then the Vedas were printed. Still Vedas are not those which have been printed but those which are preached by mouth by an Acharya/yogi and the printed Vedas are called Sanhita.
Now if somebody worships a statue etc., then it is their own creation please but Vedas deny. According to Vedas the best worship of the God is Yajyen for which all Vedas are self-proof. Yajurveda mantra 31/16 says that the learned persons worship God by Yajyen.
So many people have asked me that most of the scholars/preachers of different religion state that their religion incorporates all matters of the world including science. What about Vedas? I wrote so many Ved Mantras describing science matters therein. For example, Yajurveda Mantra 3/6 states “Ayam Gauhu Swaha Pitram Puraha Prayan Mataram Prishnihi Aakrameet Asadat”.
This earth revolves around the Sun in the space and it also rotates on its own axis. Vedas are eternal like God because Vedas emanate from God. Now, according to Vedas, this present creation is about 1 Arab, 96 crores, 8 lakh 53,111 years old. So are the Vedas but as said in Rigveda Mantra 10/191/3 the present creation is same as was the previous one and this process of creation is eternal. So are the Vedas which emanate from eternal God. This all concludes that Vedas are the oldest in this creation also and no other book of science, maths or pertaining to spiritualism is written before Vedas.
Like the above example of rotation and revolution of earth, the significance of whole present science is mentioned in Vedas. We can see that whatever is happening in the universe, is all according to the Vedas. For example, occurance of six seasons, actions of Sun, moon, process of death, birth, worship, yoga philosophy, atomic energy, agriculture, animal husbandry, knowledge of politics, administration, architecture, solar energy, knowledge of home appliances like mixer, grinder, business rules, about men, women, children, marriage, Brahamcharya, education, clothes etc., etc., i.e., knowledge right from a straw to Brahma is all in Vedas. God is Almighty and has unlimited powers. So through His power He is able to originate the knowledge of Vedas in the heart of four Rishis without pencil, paper, help of mouth or any other worldly assistance.
We, i.e., the whole world depends on Almighty God but God is forever independent. That is why, He is God. We are the souls who reside in human bodies. We need assistance of senses, perceptions, mind and body to do deeds but not God.
Nowadays, so many saints are writing books. What is the background to write their books? Background is clear that they have first studied or listened the preach from their Gurus, keeping aside the matter of truth or falsehood. And after studying or listening the same, they became able to write the books. So this is also fundamental law, based on which, the ancient Rishis first listened Vedas and when they became learned then only they wrote the Vedic books like Valmiki Ramayana, six shastras, Mahabharat (Bhagwad Geeta), Upanishads, etc., etc. So, first the knowledge of Vedas is initiated in the universe and afterwards other books come into existence.
Somebody may say that human beings have knowledge by their nature to create anything like books etc., but we see that the newly born baby who is nursed in a jungle, in the absence of knowledge of a learned person, he becomes incapable to do anything. Thus, he can’t be M.A, M.Sc, doctor etc. So there are two types of the words and meanings. First, eternal which are from Almighty God and second, natural made by human beings. Eternal word meanings are always from Vedas i.e., from God. After listening/studying Vedas, human beings become learned and then too based on their own natural knowledge, they make their own words and meanings, literature etc. But it is very much clear that in the absence of knowledge of Vedas, no one can become learned. Nowadays, also people live in dense jungle and do not lead a civilized life because they are not learned as cited above. Vedas are not sects because they emanate direct from God and God is one for all human beings. God creates sun, moon, air, water, food etc., which are meant for the best use of all human beings for their long, happy life. So are the Vedas. So all human beings must accept Vedas as an eternal knowledge from God, for the benefit of whole creation.