Saroj: Pranam Guru Ji. Mera. Maine ek pustak me padha ki Brahma, Visnu aur mahesh kaal ke putra hi, aur kaal se bhi Uupar (sarvopari dev) ek naaam hi; Kavir. Kya ye satya hi? Koi Jagatguru Raampal ke naam ka hai. Inka daava hi, ye suboot k sath kah rahe hi ki Kabir das ji (jinke hum dohe padhte hi), wo hi sabse bade devta kavir hi jo satyug me bhi aaye the aur kalyug me Kabirdas k roop me aye. Please is par prakash dale, agar yah jhoot hi to kuchh aisa kare ki wah saksh logo ko bhramit na kar paye, wo pahle haridwar me the ab haryana me hi, uske 2 lakh se jyada anuyayi chele hi, Kripya satya par prakash dale. kyonki unki pustak me maine jo padha mai shock rah gaya.
Swami Ram Swarup: Ved hamare parmanit (proof/authentic) granth hain. Ved mein jo vishaey nahin hai, koi bhi vidwan usey satya nahi manta. Yeh baat Yog Shastra sutra 1/7 mein Rishis Patanjali ne bhi kahi hai. Bhav yeh hai ki Brahma, Vishnu, Mahesh kaal ke putra hain aisa ved, Shastra, Upnishad, Gita aadi granthon mein kahi bhi nahin likha hai. Ved mein updesh hai ki Ishwar ek hai, parantu gunno ke anusaar uske anek naam hain jaise Agni, Vaayu, surya, Chandrama, Ishwar, Om aadi. Yeh ek Ishwar ke naam hee hain. Issee tarah Brahma, Vishnu, Mahesh bhi usee
ek Ishwar ke hee naam hain. Is vishaye mein main apna ek article nichey paste karta hoon-
Are Brahma, Vishnu, Mahesh Gods?

Brahma, Vishnu, Mahesh are not God. Vedas tell that there is only one formless God who never takes birth. He creates, nurses and destroys the universe. His power is enough to create and control the whole universe. He is Almighty i.e., He has all unlimited powers and therefore He does not need any assistance to create, nurse and destroy the universe by Brahma, Vishnu, Mahesh. If God needs assistance then He will not be called Almighty. So God does not need any support but we all humans as well as all living beings need His support and blessings every time. However, in Vedas, there are innumerable names of Almighty God according to His divine qualities. So Brahma, Vishnu, Mahesh etc., are also the names of the formless Almighty God. Brahma means the greatest. Vishnu means omnipresent and Mahesh means the greatest.

It is the personal matter of worship or not to worship. So atheists are also there. But it is very clear that God in Vedas as clarified that He Has blessed the human being with human body to worship and realise God. Nobody can attain happy life in the absence of worship of God. One more thing is clear from Vedas in which God states –Oh man/woman you live on the earth given by God and all comforts provided by the God. And if you do not remember/worship God then it is sin and punishment is awarded by the God.

Very few persons know that present science has also come out from Vedas, especially Rigveda. The knowledge of Vedas also emanates from God. So, it is clear that scientist also enjoy science which is given by God. God is not only the matter of blind faith. It is the matter of discussion with a learned acharya of Vedas and Yoga philosophy who from Vedas, shastras and Upnishads etc., and scientifically also prove the existence of God. For example- we see the creation and can think deeply that who has created it or is it a job of man/woman, scientist etc., then automatically after long discussion we would reach on the conclusion that men/women/scientist have not created the universe and then He who has created is called Almighty God.

Vishnu is also a name of formless, Almighty God based on quality. Quality is a sunder- “Vishnu” word is made from “Vishlari” Dhatu and the sense of Vishlari” is omnipresent. So he who has the quality of being Omnipresent at all times without a second’s break, He is Vishnu and no other Vishnu exists equivalent to this God. Similarly, Brahma= “Vri Vridhau” i.e., the biggest amongst the universe. Naturally, He is Almighty God. So, the name of Almighty God is also Brahma. Similarly, according to Yajurveda mantra 16/41 shiv means he who is beneficial/causes welfare, is shiv. The most beneficial, who creates and nurses the universe is Almighty God. So, Shiv is also name of Almighty God.

Ved mein kavir naam ya kisi bhi vyakti ka naam nahi hai. Arthath ved mein Ishwar ne proper noun istemaal nahi kiya hai. Ved shabd ka arth kewal gyan hai. Isliye Vedon mein kewal gyan diya gaya hai, kisi ka personal naam nahi hai. Kyunki Ved is srishti se pehle bhi they, ab bhi hain, is sristi ke nasht ho jaane ke baad bhi raheinge. Yahi karann hai ki Ved mein kewal bhoot, bhavishya aur vartamaan mein laagu hone wale srishti ke niyam aur padarth vidya ka gyan, karmon ka gyan
tatha Ishwar bhakti ka gyan diya gaya hai. Isliye kisi ka naam vedon mein nahi hai.

Koi kahe ki kisi ka naam nahi hai, toh Vedon mein kavir ya kabir Ishwar ke naam diye gaye hain toh yeh bhi nahi hai. Kyunki gunno ke aadhaar par vedon mein Ishwar ke anant naam diye gaye hain parantu unmein kavir ya kabir ka naam nahin diya gaya hai. Vidwan vedon ko hee parmann mantey hain. Ishwar ka yeh bhi ek gunn hai ki woh janam marann se pare hai aur isliye aata jaata nahi hai. Is vishaye mein, main apna ek article paste karta hoon-


Learneds always warn the public that always listen to Vedas from a learned acharya who knows Sanskrit grammer, Vedas and Ashtang yoga philosophy. Now, problem is this that mostly public is not aware of the knowledge of Vedas and are compelled to follow the same blind path pursued by other people without any logic. Nowadays, mostly the so-called saints have been trying to mislead the public by their false statements. In the case of Kabir banni there are also misconceptions.

I am sure that sant Kabir has never declared himself as Parmatma. The people who are writing such wrong things have interpreted their own meanings of Ved mantras that too in small portions (piece meals), which is a great sin, as per Atharvaveda mantra 12/5/40. Idea of the mantra is that one should traditionally study the Vedas from a learned acharya of Vedas in gurukul or in the home of the learned acharya.

On this point, I am afraid whether the guru/gurus and followers who have
concern with sant Kabirji, who are declaring Kabirji as Parmeshwar/Ishwar have studied Vedas as stated above. I mean to say, they have not studied Vedas traditionally but have been trying to
impose the false meanings of few portion of ved mantras on others. Had they studied Sanskrit grammer and Vedas traditionally they would have been automatically bound to worship only one, omnipresent, formless, omniscient God Who never takes birth (i.e., He never comes in the womb
of the mother to take birth in the form of child).

Some of my admirers asked the present guru of Kabir panth to have shastrath with me on the issue of declaring Sant Kabirji as Parmatma. I also agreed to it. But when they asked for the sum of two lakhs then my admirers had to withdraw because, to organize shastrath such money is not required. I also sent a message that before shastrath we will sit together on lunch/dinner and have prior talk over the issue in loving manner. Yet they did not agree. I shall like to draw your attention on Rigveda mantra 1/164/45 wherein the difference between learned acharya of Vedas and uneducated guru has been stated. The meaning of the mantra is as under –

(Ye) Those (Manisheennaha) who do deep study of Vedas and have full command over mind, possess best intellect. [Please, try to understand that vedic word Manu, Muni and Manisheennaha are concerned with the study of Vedas.] (Brahammannaha) Please try to understand that there
are two meanings of Brahma from which Brahammannaha word is made. First Brahma means Shabda Brahma i.e., knowledge of ved mantras including Sanskrit language. So, Brahammannaha means who has studied Sanskrit grammer, vedas. So, such Brahammanna (Vaak) of divine voice i.e., Vedas (Parimita) measure/quality (Chatvari) four i.e., four measures/qualities of the vedas which are Akhyat, Upsarg, Naam and Nipaat. (Padani) Pad which is worthy to be known. Here Pad means the words like “Kavi” Manishi” etc. (Taani) that knowledge i.e., Grammar, Ved, Measure/quality of divine voice i.e., Vedas, name, akhayat, upsarg and nipaat pad are known by manisheennaha – munis. Mantra further states that (manushyaha) ordinary men (Vachaha) of divine
voice i.e., Vedas. (Tureeyam) fourth part of the vaani i.e., Nipaat (Vadanti) only say. That is, the ordinary people do not have the proper knowledge of Chatvari i.e., name, akhyat, upsarg. They never say about the said three parts but only say the fourth part i.e., Nipaat and this is the difference between the learned and the ordinary men.

Meaning- Those who are learned of Vedas and have control over their mind- intellect by virtue of study of Vedas and hold practice of Ashtang yoga philosophy and know Vedic grammer, Vedas, they are well-learned of name (noun), akhyat, upsarg, nipaat words. But those who are ordinary men i.e., have not studied the above quoted vedic philosophy traditionally, they do not know about name (noun), akhyat, upsarg, nipaat. This is the significant main difference between the learned acharya and the ordinary men who declare themselves a learned sant at their own. Hence, the acute problem arises and the loss is to be borne by the innocent public. That is why, Manusmriti shloka 2/168

“Yoandheetya Dwijo Vedamanyatra Kurutey Shramam
Sa Jeevannev Shudratvamashu Gachchati Sanvayaha.”

Meaning- Those who do not study the Vedas traditionally, but do hard struggle in studying other man-made granths etc., they along with their followers, sons and grandsons etc., attain shudratva stage i.e., mean/inferior thoughts immediately. Thus, their downfall begins and soon they will be liable to face the sorrows, tensions, problems, diseases etc., along with their families and followers. So, vedic path is very sharp and vedic knowledge is first required to be listened from an acharya, it should not be studied alone. Study of the above facts would reveal that misinterpretation and cut=piece knowledge of ved mantras is a great sin and Almighty God punishes such defaulters.

Now, I would like to tell same wrong meanings of cut pieces of the Ved mantras mentioned in Kabir’s banni i.e., a book named “Bhakti saudagar ko Sandesh”. On the first line of first page under the heading- “Bhakti Saudagar ko Sandesh” it is stated that there was no Dharma or sect before 5,000 years but it should be known that right from the beginning of the earth i.e., about one arab, ninety six crores, eight lakh, fifty three thousand years before till 5,000 years ago eternal, vedic Dharma existed which was applicable and is still applicable for whole mankind, Vedas knowledge having emanated direct from God.

I am unable to give full comments on the book, being a lengthy task but full book can be discussed personally. You know, our mothers, sisters, household ladies check only one grain of rice from the
cooking pot and come to the conclusion whether full quantity of the rice of the pot is cooked or uncooked. Similarly, I would only give short examples of the books which are against the vedas, shastras, upnishads, Geeta etc. On the bottom line of the same page number 1, author has given the references of Yajurveda mantra 5/32, Samveda mantra 1400, Rigveda mantra 1/1/11 and several other ved mantras, holy Quran Sharief and Bible stating that the said holy books are praising sant Kabir as the form of Parmatma i.e., God. Study of the same holy books reveals that the name of sant Kabir does not exist therein.

For example- some portion (piecemeal) of Yajurveda mantra 5/32 has again been quoted on page 116 as kavirangharirasi.

Actually, the said word has been quoted wrongly in the absence of knowledge of above quoted words- Name, Akhyat, Upsarg, Nipaat and Sanskrit grammer etc.. The real word is “Kaviranggharirasi” (quoted in Hindi also). Now, question arises about knowledge of name (noun).

Actually, in four Vedas proper noun has not been used by Almighty God except His (God’s) name alone- as OM or the names of non-alive matters like- sun, moon etc. So, quoting the name of sant Kabir in Vedas does not arise being against the fundamental law of Almighty God. But in the above quoted book, quoting the reference of said ved mantras following piece-meal meaning of ved mantra has been quoted-

“Kaviranggharirasi” i.e., (Kavir)- according to grammer, the Hindi word Ra (here R); using the knowledge of Sanskrit grammer and by doing sandhi-vichched the said Vedic word when will be subjected to sandhi-vichched from the original word Kavirangharirasi, it will be- (Kavihi) + (Anggharihi) + (Asi).

Meaning- (Kavihi) Krantdarshi in Hindi and in English witness of revolution. Here, revolution means that God is the witness of innumerable final destructions of the universe and will ever remain
being immortal i.e., He is always away from death and birth. God is “Anghari” because He punishes the sinners/culprits but sant Kabir sahib was not the krantdarshi. (Angharihi) enemy of sinner (Asi) is. So, meaning would be Kavi i.e., God is the enemy of sinner.

Now, I quote the meaning of the above word- “kavirangharirasi” quoted in the above book, related to sant Kabirji. They have stated meaning-
Kavirangharirasi- i.e., (kavir) kabir (Anghari) enemy of sins (Asi) is.

Meaning would be kabir is enemy of sins. They have quoted eternal, pious word “Kavir” as kabir which is totally against the Vedas. Please note that in the Vedas, the word after sandhi-vichched is-
‘kavihi’ and not “Kabi’. There is difference between Hindi words “Va” and “Ba”.

I have noted that in whole of the book mostly “kavihi” word has been wrongly assumed as “kabir”. In the above ved mantra, ‘Kavi’ pious word has been used as proper noun as name of Almighty God and this word cannot be altered.

In the above book related to Kabir, mostly the word “Kavi” has been wrongly interpreted. Secondly, Almighty God who is kavi based on His divine qualities is formless and never takes birth in human or any other body, He being unchangeable, as is also stated in Yajurveda mantra 40/8 meaning of which is appended below-

Yajurveda mantra 40/8 says


“ Shukram” Almighty,
“Akayam” i.e., devoid of body, so does not take birth,
“Avrannam” without hole and can not be converted into any part, so soul is also not a part of God
“Asnaviram” i.e., without nervous system etc.,
“Apaapviddham” away from sins and does not love those who are sinners,
“Pari + Agaat i.e., omnipresent,
“Kavihi” Omniscient, “Manishihi” knows thoughts of every soul
“Paribhuhu” who keeps behind the culprits/sinners
“Swayambhuhu” who is eternal/beyond death and birth/has no father, mother etc.,
“Shaashvatibhyaha Samabhyah” for eternal living beings,
“Yathatathyatah” with truth, “Arthan” gives knowledge of all through
vedas, “Vyadadhaat” preaches, “Sah” He is God.

So Vedic satsang and vanni of true Mahapurush must be made the part of our lives to generate the firm love and to continue daily the name jaap of Almighty God.

As regards, satlok and name jaap. The matter has also been mentioned in vedas. Yajurveda mantra 40/ 15 states “Om Krato Smar” i.e., O! man do the jaap of holy name of God, Om but mostly saints do not talk about ‘OM’ for jaap. Satlok is not mentioned in vedas instead ‘Divilok’ is mentioned, the meaning of which is immortal lok. Moreover, we must know about the entity whose name we’ve been chanting or doing the jaap, whether we love Him more than the family, ourselves or the world etc., because until we love Him, our concentration will never be steadfast on Him. Secondly, love is not possible until we know everything about the Almighty God. To know Him,
the process of satsang, where the natural, eternal, divine qualities, powers and deeds of God are preached or are sung as bhajan-kirtan must be attended more and more. By listening to such satsang and bhajans aspirant will very well know the divine, eternal and everlasting qualities of Almighty God along with other secrets of His creations etc., based on which the aspirant will start to inculcate true love for God and thus with full concentration and love , the aspirant will start doing jaap of His holy name.

For example:- “Ek Onkar Satnaam Karta Purukh Nirbhau Nirvair Akaal Moorat Ajooni Saibhung Guruprasad Jap Aad Such Jugaad Such Hai Bhi Such Nanak Hosi Wi Such” are the divine eternal qualities of God mentioned in Sri Guru Granth Sahib.

Sagar: Swamiji pranam!!!!! The souls who had got salvation may come back and take birth to guide the people. And after doing his job the soul goes back at his own to realize salvation. This is as per Atharvaveda mantra 9/10/11. So within the soul of Shri Krishna Maharaj actually the words of God were uttered which are true. With reference to the above, question arises does god decide the birth and death of this soul if he does then does he practice ashtanga yoga again and realise god again. If these souls take birth to guide the people then why do great rishis and miunis like rishi augustya, vashistrishi,v ishwamitra, shringirishi, yagvalka rishi and many great rishis, if they come back to guide people in present times this world will be like satyug, treta and dwapar yug. Please enlighten me swamiji.
Swami Ram Swarup: Yes, several liberated souls at their own come back to preach the
people and at their own, the soul leaves the body. Please note that when such soul takes the body to educate the people and till the time the soul leaves the body and even after leaving the body in the said old time, they remains in salvation. When we address Sri Krishna Maharaj ji as soul, so how he can be addressed as God. God is not soul and never comes in body or womb of mother. Secondly, it cannot be told as “Soul of Sri Krishna Maharaj” because as per Yajurveda mantra 7/29, there is no name of soul but when soul based on his good/bad deeds comes in the womb of mother there God blesses the soul with body and organs etc. After taking the birth, the soul is named (after doing
naam karann sanskar) as Ram, Lakshman, Parshuram, Shyam etc. The God when has given salvation to any soul, then coming and going back of the liberated soul is not controlled by God but it is soul’s own deeds.

However, after expiry of a fixed time of salvation the soul again takes birth under the control of Almighty God. If the soul wants to attain salvation again, then surely he will have to make contact with learned acharya of Vedas and Ashtang Yoga philosophy to attain Samadhi. The liberated soul, you see come at their own i.e., may not come and liberated soul does not come under administration of Almighty God, being liberated whereas fundamental law of Almighty God which is unchangeable and unchallengeable is this that in the beginning of every creation, the knowledge of four Vedas emanates directly from Almighty God and with the power of God the said knowledge is
originated in the heart of four Rishis which further spreads traditionally through Guru and shishya relation. The liberated soul also gets first knowledge from the Rishis, so if Rishi, Muni will not
be there, so how there will be existence of liberated soul. So, in no circumstances, the fundamental law of God to create, nurse and destroy and to recreate the universe is ever unchangeable and unchallengeable says also Rigveda mantra 3/56/1. Satyug, Treta and Dwapur are Yugas having some limited time I mean to say Satyug has 17 lakhs, 28,000 years, Treta has 12 lakhs, 96 ,000 years, Dwapur has 8 lakhs, 64,000 years and kalyug has 4 lakhs, 32,000 years. So, the Yugas have no concern with liberation etc. Being the personal matter of human-being those who are living in Kalyug and has acute desire to get salvation, they should contact with acharya and after following Acharya’s vedic preach attain salvation. So, also Kalyug has no personal concern with salvation etc. It is the personal matter of a person.

Jai: Swamiji, How old are the Vedas in terms of number of years?
Swami Ram Swarup: Vedas are one Arab, ninety six crore, eight lakh, fifty three thousand, one hundred thirteen years old. In this connection, I paste my article as under-

Vedas’ Philosophy

God has made universe and blessed us with human body to do pious deeds to attain salvation only. He has not made any heaven or hell. All have to face the result of their deeds, good or bad here only, even by taking rebirth. (Rigveda mantras 10/135/1,2 refer)
God has not only made universe but has also given knowledge of four Vedas where answers to your and everyone’s questions have been given. There are four Vedas:

1. Rig Veda – gives knowledge of science, matter of the universe like sun, moon, air, body etc., etc.

2. Yajurveda – gives knowledge of all the deeds and duties to be performed by men, women, students, leaders, king, agriculturist etc., etc., etc.

3. Samveda – gives knowledge how to worship God who gives peace and long happy life etc. In this way, details of Yoga philosophy, qualities, supreme deeds and nature of the God are also given.

4. Atharvaveda – gives details of God, medical science and details of medicine etc.

Actually in four Vedas there is unlimited knowledge. Yajurveda mantra 40/8 says that God is everywhere, is Almighty, formless, devoid of nervous system, purest, away from sins and does not have to face any result of any karmas (deeds), knows every soul, knows what is in everyone’s mind, no body has made God, but God creates universe, has given the eternal knowledge of four Vedas and always gives the said knowledge at the beginning of every universe to know the science and deeds to all concern. Similarly four Vedas say about God that God is an omnipresent, omniscient, formless, beyond imagination and beyond calculation. Actually God has unlimited qualities. There is only one God who creates, nurses, destroys the universe and recreates. Atharvaveda mantra 4/1/1 also says that God gives the knowledge of Vedas at the beginning of the earth to four Rishis of non-sexual creation. And thereafter only public listens Vedas through Rishis Munis as yet and become learned. Rig-Veda gives knowledge of Almighty, Yajurveda gives knowledge of karmas (deeds), Samveda tells about worship-Yoga philosophy and Atharvaveda about medicines and God. Actually all Vedas commonly says about God also, so this is about Vedas in short. But the knowledge of Vedas is endless.

It is a fundamental law that knowledge is always given by somebody. Otherwise knowledge can’t be gained at any cost. If a new born baby is nursed well in a dense jungle and is not educated then he will not be able to gain any knowledge even if he becomes young or old. So we have to think about the origin of the knowledge prevalent in the world today. In this connection the Vedas themselves say that God gives this knowledge to four Rishis. As said by Rishi Patanjali in Yoga shastra sutra 1/26, God is the first Guru of the four Rishis. Yajurveda mantra 31/7 also refers. This is all in short about Vedas.

The Vedas are not a book, rather it is a knowledge originated in the heart of Rishis. At the time of beginning of the earth those Rishis preached Vedas by mouth and all others remembered the same orally. At that time there was no pen, pencil, paper, etc. This process of studying Vedas orally remained till Mahabharata time. Muni Vyas too remembered Vedas traditionally by heart. Then Muni Vyas for the first time wrote the Vedas on Bhoj patra about 5300 years ago. In 16th century when printing press came into existence then the Vedas were printed. Still Vedas are not those which have been printed but those which are preached by mouth by an Acharya/yogi and the printed Vedas are called Sanhita.

Now if somebody worships a statue etc., then it is their own creation please but Vedas deny. According to Vedas the best worship of the God is Yajyen for which all Vedas are self-proof. Yajurveda mantra 31/16 says that the learned persons worship God by Yajyen.

So many people have asked me that most of the scholars/preachers of different religion state that their religion incorporates all matters of the world including science. What about Vedas? I wrote so many Ved Mantras describing science matters therein. For example, Yajurveda Mantra 3/6 states “Ayam Gauhu Swaha Pitram Puraha Prayan Mataram Prishnihi Aakrameet Asadat”.

This earth revolves around the Sun in the space and it also rotates on its own axis. Vedas are eternal like God because Vedas emanate from God. Now, according to Vedas, this present creation is about 1 Arab, 96 crores, 8 lakh 53,111 years old. So are the Vedas but as said in Rigveda Mantra 10/191/3 the present creation is same as was the previous one and this process of creation is eternal. So are the Vedas which emanate from eternal God. This all concludes that Vedas are the oldest in this creation also and no other book of science, maths or pertaining to spiritualism is written before Vedas.

Like the above example of rotation and revolution of earth, the significance of whole present science is mentioned in Vedas. We can see that whatever is happening in the universe, is all according to the Vedas. For example, occurance of six seasons, actions of Sun, moon, process of death, birth, worship, yoga philosophy, atomic energy, agriculture, animal husbandry, knowledge of politics, administration, architecture, solar energy, knowledge of home appliances like mixer, grinder, business rules, about men, women, children, marriage, Brahamcharya, education, clothes etc., etc., i.e., knowledge right from a straw to Brahma is all in Vedas. God is Almighty and has unlimited powers. So through His power He is able to originate the knowledge of Vedas in the heart of four Rishis without pencil, paper, help of mouth or any other worldly assistance.

We, i.e., the whole world depends on Almighty God but God is forever independent. That is why, He is God. We are the souls who reside in human bodies. We need assistance of senses, perceptions, mind and body to do deeds but not God.

Nowadays, so many saints are writing books. What is the background to write their books? Background is clear that they have first studied or listened the preach from their Gurus, keeping aside the matter of truth or falsehood. And after studying or listening the same, they became able to write the books. So this is also fundamental law, based on which, the ancient Rishis first listened Vedas and when they became learned then only they wrote the Vedic books like Valmiki Ramayana, six shastras, Mahabharat (Bhagwad Geeta), Upanishads, etc., etc. So, first the knowledge of Vedas is initiated in the universe and afterwards other books come into existence.

Somebody may say that human beings have knowledge by their nature to create anything like books etc., but we see that the newly born baby who is nursed in a jungle, in the absence of knowledge of a learned person, he becomes incapable to do anything. Thus, he
can’t be M.A, M.Sc, doctor etc. So there are two types of the words and meanings. First, eternal which are from Almighty God and second, natural made by human beings. Eternal word meanings are always from Vedas i.e., from God. After listening/studying Vedas, human beings become learned and then too based on their own natural knowledge, they make their own words and meanings, literature etc. But it is very much clear that in the absence of knowledge of Vedas, no one can become learned. Nowadays, also people live in dense jungle and do not lead a civilized life because they are not learned as cited above. Vedas are not sects because they emanate direct from God and God is one for all human beings. God creates sun, moon, air, water, food etc., which are meant for the best use of all human beings for their long, happy life. So are the Vedas. So all human beings must accept Vedas as an eternal knowledge from God, for the benefit of whole creation.