Rational Singh: Pranam Maharaj ji.
Please enlighten me by replying following questions:-
1. When Vedas were first written down?
2. Who wrote and on which material?
3. What was the language and the script (lipi)?
4. Where is the oldest Vedas kept today and how much old they are?
Regards.
Vandan
Swami Ram Swarup: In this connection I paste my articles –
Who wrote Vedas and when?
Vedas are not written or spoken by God. This knowledge is emanated from God and is originated in the heart of four Rishis as stated above. God is Almighty i.e., He has all powers. So He needs no assistance to do deeds of universe.
In human body alive soul resides. And soul is dependent, soul requires mouth to speak, eye to see, hand to write etc., etc. but God not. So from His power God originates the knowledge of Vedas in the Rishis without writing, or speaking etc.
Knowledge of the Vedas is one but it was given to four Rishis in the shape of Rig-Veda, Yajurveda, Samveda and Atharvaveda. These Vedas have three topics stated above.
How did the original copy of Vedas written by Vyas Muni get lost?
Several wars have been fought on the earth. If you want to destroy the nation, destroy their culture and the nation will be destroyed at its own. Mostly the communities had been doing the work on the said matter. All scripts in original and other hand written books of the ancient rishis were respectfully placed in India in Takshila and Nalanda, university of Bihar (India).
Aurangzeb started destroying the culture. Aurangzeb arranged both the universities’ culture, kept as precious literature comprising of writings of Rishis (scientists) to be put on fire. Just imagine that the books were burning continuously for about six months. But traditionally the knowledge of four Vedas was known by heart by Indian Brahmin. Who knew one Ved by heart, he was called Vedi. Two Vedas – Dwivedi, three Vedas— Tripathi, and the Brahmin who knew four Vedas by heart was called Chaturvedi. So Vedas are still alive and are being printed by the grace of God.
Vedas’ knowledge is divine. The fundamental of the Vedas is this that it was not written or spoken. The knowledge by the power of God was originated in the heart of four Rishis about one Arab 96 crore, 8 lakhs and 53,111 years ago. Then first time the four Rishis of nonsexual creation started pronunciation of the mantras by the power of God. God wanted to make them know word meanings and sense of the mantras, and therefore the Rishis knew all. Then first time the four Rishis started pronunciation of the mantras. They taught the mantras to other ignorant people. Then more Rishis were produced who knew the Vedas by heart by listening only. There was no paper, ink or pen there. The Vedas were being learnt orally and traditionally this process is yet in force. But mostly not by heart but taking help of the printed book. So printed books are not called Vedas but these are called samhita. Samhita means the collection of Ved mantras. Therefore, Vedas are not books as yet and will never be in future. Kapil Muni throws light on this point in his Sankhya shastra sutra 5/48 that when a Rishi does tapsya in the shape of Yajyen, study of Vedas, practice of Ashtang yoga then the Ved mantras (now also) originate in heart of a Rishi and the Rishi pronounces the mantras and those mantras are called Vedas, which emanate from God. So, Vedas must first be listened (studied) from alive Acharya (Guru who knows Vedas). Then only books of Vedas can be of any help.
Vedas’ Philosophy
God has made universe and blessed us with human body to do pious deeds to attain salvation only. He has not made any heaven or hell. All have to face the result of their deeds, good or bad here only, even by taking rebirth. (Rigved mantras 10/135/1,2 refer)
God has not only made universe but has also given knowledge of four Vedas where answers to your and everyone’s questions have been given. There are four Vedas:
1. Rig Veda – gives knowledge of science, matter of the universe like sun, moon, air, body etc., etc.
2. Yajurved – gives knowledge of all the deeds and duties to be performed by men, women, students, leaders, king, agriculturist etc., etc., etc.
3. Samved – gives knowledge how to worship God who gives peace and long happy life etc. In this way, details of Yoga philosophy, qualities, supreme deeds and nature of the God are also given.
4. Atharvaved – gives details of God, medical science and details of medicine etc.
Actually in four Vedas there is unlimited knowledge. Yajurved mantra 40/8 says that God is everywhere, is Almighty, formless, devoid of nervous system, purest, away from sins and does not have to face any result of any karmas (deeds), knows every soul, knows what is in everyone’s mind, no body has made God, but God creates universe, has given the eternal knowledge of four Vedas and always gives the said knowledge at the beginning of every universe to know the science and deeds to all concern. Similarly four Vedas say about God that God is an omnipresent, omniscient, formless, beyond imagination and beyond calculation. Actually God has unlimited qualities. There is only one God who creates, nurses, destroys the universe and recreates. Atharvaved mantra 4/1/1 also says that God gives the knowledge of Vedas at the beginning of the earth to four Rishis of non-sexual creation. And thereafter only public listens Vedas through Rishis- Munis as yet and become learned. Rig-Veda gives knowledge of Almighty, Yajurved gives knowledge of karmas (deeds), Samved tells about worship-Yoga philosophy and Atharvaved about medicines and God. Actually all Vedas commonly says about God also, so this is about Vedas in short. But the knowledge of Vedas is endless.
It is a fundamental law that knowledge is always given by somebody. Otherwise knowledge can’t be gained at any cost. If a new born baby is nursed well in a dense jungle and is not educated then he will not be able to gain any knowledge even if he becomes young or old. So we have to think about the origin of the knowledge prevalent in the world today. In this connection the Vedas themselves say that God gives this knowledge to four Rishis. As said by Rishi Patanjali in Yog shastra sutra 1/26, God is the first Guru of the four Rishis. Yajurved mantra 31/7 also refers. This is all in short about Vedas.
The Vedas are not a book, rather it is a knowledge originated in the heart of Rishis. At the time of beginning of the earth those Rishis preached Vedas by mouth and all others remembered the same orally. At that time there was no pen, pencil, paper, etc. This process of studying Vedas orally remained till Mahabharata
time. Muni Vyas too remembered Vedas traditionally by heart. Then Muni Vyas for the first time wrote the Vedas on Bhoj patra about 5300 years ago. In 16th century when printing press came into existence then the Vedas were printed. Still Vedas are not those which have been printed but those which are preached by mouth by an Acharya/yogi and the printed Vedas are called Sanhita.
Now if somebody worships a statue etc., then it is their own creation please but Vedas deny. According to Vedas the best worship of the God is Yajyen for which all Vedas are self-proof. Yajurved mantra 31/16 says that the learned persons worship God by Yajyen.
So many people have asked me that most of the scholars/preachers of different religion state that their religion incorporates all matters of the world including science. What about Vedas? I wrote so many Ved Mantras describing science matters therein. For example, Yajurved Mantra 3/6 states
“Ayam Gauhu Swaha Pitram Puraha Prayan Mataram Prishnihi Aakrameet Asadat”.
Meaning:
This earth revolves around the Sun in the space and it also rotates on its own axis. Vedas are eternal like God because Vedas emanate from God. Now, according to Vedas, this present creation is about 1 Arab, 96 crores, 8 lakh 53,111 years old. So are the Vedas but as said in Rigved Mantra 10/191/3 the present creation is same as was the previous one and this process of creation is eternal. So are the Vedas which emanate from eternal God. This all concludes that Vedas are the oldest in this creation also and no other book of science, maths or pertaining to spiritualism is written before Vedas.
Like the above example of rotation and revolution of earth, the significance of whole present science is mentioned in Vedas. We can see that whatever is happening in the universe, is all according to the Vedas. For example, occurance of six seasons, actions of Sun, moon, process of death, birth, worship, yoga philosophy, atomic energy, agriculture, animal husbandry, knowledge of politics, administration, architecture, solar energy, knowledge of home appliances like mixer, grinder, business rules, about men, women, children, marriage, Brahmacharya, education, clothes etc., etc., i.e., knowledge right from a straw to Brahma is all in Vedas. God is Almighty and has unlimited powers. So through His power He is able to originate the knowledge of Vedas in the heart of four Rishis without pencil, paper, help of mouth or any other worldly assistance.
We, i.e., the whole world depends on Almighty God but God is forever independent. That is why, He is God. We are the souls who reside in human bodies. We need assistance of senses, perceptions, mind and body to do deeds but not God.
Nowadays, so many saints are writing books. What is the background to write their books? Background is clear that they have first studied or listened the preach from their Gurus, keeping aside the matter of truth or falsehood. And after studying or listening the same, they became able to write the books. So this is also fundamental law, based on which, the ancient Rishis first listened Vedas and when they became learned then only they wrote the Vedic books like Valmiki Ramayana, six shastras, Mahabharat (Bhagwad Geeta), Upanishads, etc., etc. So, first the knowledge of Vedas is initiated in the universe and afterwards other books come into existence.
Somebody may say that human beings have knowledge by their nature to create anything like books etc., but we see that the newly born baby who is nursed in a jungle, in the absence of knowledge of a learned person, he becomes incapable to do anything. Thus, he can’t be M.A, M.Sc, doctor etc. So there are two types of the words and meanings. First, eternal which are from Almighty God and second, natural made by human beings. Eternal word meanings are always from Vedas i.e., from God. After listening/studying Vedas, human beings become learned and then too based on their own natural knowledge, they make their own words and meanings, literature etc. But it is very much clear that in the absence of knowledge of Vedas, no one can become learned. Nowadays, also people live in dense jungle and do not lead a civilized life because they are not learned as cited above. Vedas are not sects because they emanate direct from God and God is one for all human beings. God creates sun, moon, air, water, food etc., which are meant for the best use of all human beings for their long, happy life, so are the Vedas.
So all human beings must accept Vedas as an eternal knowledge from God, for the benefit of whole creation.
“Vedas- The Storehouse of Knowledge, Deeds and Worship”
In Samveda mantra 7, two kinds of languages are stated.
First “Ittha” and second “Ittra”. Ittha is the divine Sanskrit language which emanates direct from God in the shape of four Vedas to preach the human beings. (Yajurveda Mantra 31/7 refers). Naturally, the Ved Mantras are not in worldly language but in divine Sanskrit language. Ittha is preached at the time of every creation.
So when we will talk about the present creation i.e., about more than 1 Arab, 96 crores, 8 lakhs, 53,111 years ago, when this earth came into existence, the knowledge of Vedas emanated from God as usual. As God is immortal so the said language is immortal too. It is not out of place to mention here that immortal power can only generate immortal language. Keeping the said statement in mind it is very clear that Vedas have not been written by any Rishi-Muni, saint, men or women etc.
Another language is called “Ittra language”, made by human beings. The second one is not immortal because it is generated from the mind of human being and the mind being made of Prakriti is destructible and not immortal. It concludes that whenever we want to know the truth, we will have to tally it with the Vedas. If any kind of material, deeds, worship, action is to be checked as to whether it is true or false, it is to be verified from Vedas. If it is mentioned in Vedas as true then it is true otherwise it will have to be declared false. (Yog Shastra sutra 1/7 and Samkhya Shastra 1/52 refer). This is fundamental law so cannot be changed. Now we discuss about the form of Almighty God from Vedas. Yajurveda Mantra 31/18 says- God is form of light, the light which is the source of light and energy to sun, moon and to whole of the world i.e., God is Himself the perennial source of light. He is enlightened through His own light. He gives the light to all but He Himself never takes light from any source. When anyone (Yogi), through the power of Ashtang Yoga, realizes the light within his soul, he overcomes the death and gets final liberation. It means we must worship the God who is formless and Himself a light. The idea of Rigveda Mantra 10/121/1 and Yajurveda mantra 40/8 is that all the powers rest in God, i.e., why He is called Almighty. He is light.
God was before the creation i.e., He was in past, is in present and will remain in future unchanged after destruction of this earth/world. He is the only matter who creates, nurses and destroys the universe that is why Yajurveda Mantra 27/36 also states that the God is one and equivalent to this God, no other God was either born or will ever be born. We must worship the said God only. God gives birth to everybody but He never takes birth. Yajurveda Mantra 31/3 says that His (God’s) greatness is beyond description. We can only say that God is so great that this creation is nothing before the greatness of Almighty God. Now we must discuss as to how many Gods are there to be worshipped. In this connection, all four Vedas, six shastras and holy books of all religions clarify that there is only one God, who was present before creation, He is present now and will remain present after destruction of this world, being immortal.
Atharvaveda Mantra 13/4/16 to 21 say that God is neither two nor three, four, five, six, seven, eight or nine. There is only one God. So we must only worship, one God and no other. In this connection, the guidance from a proper spiritual master (Acharya, guru who is learned of Vedas) is a must. The form of God is light which is within each human being. God is always away from birth, death, or to face the result of any deeds etc., (Yog shastra sutra 1/24 refers). He is the only source of merriment. He whose several names have been mentioned in Vedas. He is the only God described in Vedas. For example, Vishnu. Vishnu word occurs in Vedas and it means omnipresent God. Traditionally Vedas were being learnt and recited orally since Satyug by the grace of our ancient Rishi- Munis. Afterwards, about more than 5,300 years ago Maharishi Vyas jee wrote the Vedas on Bhoj patra. Then few historic events which took place in Dwapur Yug were compiled in the form of Mahabharata epic by Vyas Muni jee. Mahabharata originally has 10,000 shlokas written in Sanskrit, which are true and give Vedas’ knowledge too. Presently, Mahabharata contains 1 lakh 20,000 shlokas out of which 10,000 shlokas are only true. That is why untrue and impossible stories are being heard like birth from fire (agnikund). Vedas do not accept it. Vedas do not contain any historic event. It is a knowledge which emanates direct from God. So naturally the Vedas do not tell about any individual’s name, place etc. After destruction of the previous creation, there remains nothing in the world. There was no sun, moon, human-being, day and night, death and birth, space etc.(Rigveda mandal 10 sukta 129 refers).
So at the beginning of present creation, no event could take place in the absence of living-beings and other matters etc. Then at a fixed time power of Almighty God starts functioning in prakriti and the creation starts. Thus, the world comes into existence. It was non-sexual creation of all living-beings. And naturally, they were not learned.
At this juncture, question arises, who was present there to educate the human-beings as without giving knowledge to men or women, no one can become wise. God is merciful and therefore as usual He showers His eternal mercy in the shape of four Vedas on all the human-beings to educate them well. The said knowledge of Vedas emanates from God and is originated in the heart of four Rishis of non-sexual creation, who then become wise. Thereafter, the Rishis shower the knowledge of Vedas to aspirants. So the first Guru of our ancient Rishis is God (Yog shastra sutra 1/26 refers). Thereafter only Rishis have been our Guru to give Vedic knowledge not only to worship God, but to educate people about all kinds of science and pious deeds. Hence, as said above Vedas are not a story. Story describes an event or happening and will be destroyed at the time of final destruction of the world. But God and His knowledge of Vedas being immortal, will ever remain, surpassing destruction. And this is the true knowledge. So we must worship only Almighty God through Yajyen, reciting the holy name given by a guru (learned Acharya of Vedas). Vedas state to discharge family duties besides worshipping God. We must always leave sins and accept the truth but to realize truth, one will have to listen the Vedas first. It is unfortunate that often some people falsely state that Vedas are difficult. In this connection, please remember that when a child first time goes to school or first time starts studying, is the study easy for him? Or is to get B.Sc., M.Sc., PhD., degrees or to be a doctor, scientist or engineer easy? Yes, the same are very difficult for those who are lazy and is quite easy for those who are hard workers. So when a student listens carefully and works hard then no topic remains difficult for him. So are the Vedas. You have to listen the Vedas and not read them. In the matter of Vedas, these are to be listened traditionally and not to be read. So listening is not difficult. One has to seek his Acharya who is learned of Vedas, to listen the Vedas from him.
Listening of Vedas, is an order direct from God. And to oversight the same may be the order of man. We have to decide either to obey.
