Dave: Swamiji 1) Which ved mantra states that the number of jivatmas is constant? 2) why cannot there be infinite jivatmas? Ved itself states there are infinite jivas.
Swami Ram Swarup: (1) God has unlimited names based on His unlimited divine qualities amongst one name of God is Swayambhu. Swayambhu means God is eternal and everlasting, God is not made from any matter and from God nothing can be made. For example potter make pots from clay and from pots again design etc., can be made. But this process does not apply in case of Almighty God. Now it is clear that God is alive matter and is one (constant). Similarly Yajurved mantra 7/3 also states that soul is swayambhu. Souls are also alive matter and have not been made from any matter and further nothing can be made from soul. There is no birth and death of the souls. Therefore the number of the souls cannot be increased/decreased being constant.
(2) Vedas never tell that the souls (jeevatma) are infinite. However the number of souls cannot be counted being beyond imagination. You see the creation is in limit not in unlimited form. For example dyulok (shining planets like sun, moon stars etc.,) antariksh (space) and prithivilok (earth). So the said three lokas are situated in limitation and therefore all the bodies of living beings and souls reside therein live in this limited universe. Otherwise souls could have been live/reside out of the universe which is not. In this connection Rigved mantra 10/190/3 also states that God creates all universal
matter same as has been creating and destroying in the previous universe.
Therefore the universal matters, souls and body of living beings are constant. If we considered the souls are infinite then we will go against the above quoted mantras where it is said that the present creation is hundred percent same as was previous creation which was destroyed and after final destruction the present creation was made. The said process of creation, nursing and destruction and again creation etc., is eternal and everlasting and natural. I would like to paste my article below:-
REVERT BACK TO VEDAS
It is the essence of Vedic spiritualism that whenever an aspirant enters into it then learned acharya preaches him that Vedas are the divine voice of God, which by the power of God, are originated in the heart of four Rishis, at the beginning of each creation. Learneds who indulge in deep study of Vedas know that Vedas are alive knowledge which emanate directly from God and hence they have not been written by anyone on the earth, in the shape of a book. Since, the said knowledge is applicable to all humans right from the beginning of earth hence Vedas are not a sect.
Infact, Kapil Muni, after traditionally studying Vedas and realising the truth, after hard practice of Ashtang Yog, also states the said truth in his Sankhya shastra sutra 5/51 that Vedas are alive knowledge hence ved mantras wield the power and self-capability to make such faithful aspirants, who are involved in deep and sincere study of Vedas, to understand the meaning and idea of ved mantras. This is the reason that Kapil Muni states that Vedas are self-proof to justify the truth. To elaborate, knowledge given in ved mantra or any fact stated through ved mantras does not require to be validated/authenticated by other shastras or any other book [but like our Rishi-Munis, Rajrishis and their public used to study Vedas traditionally with faith and sincere efforts, being the Vedic order of Almighty God, for all human-beings, the said practice is not in vogue at present times].God knows when inhabitants of India would be able to adopt the said moral duties, entrusted by God, of studying and following the Vedas, which destroys all the effects of sorrows and makes our future bright with long life and also spreads international brotherhood along with other unlimited benefits.
Secondly, universe has been created about one Arab, ninety six crore, eight lakhs, fifty three thousand and one hundred and thirteen years ago.
So, logically, Vedas have also been created at this time-period. Rishi-Munis acquired Vedas’ knowledge by listening to Vedas traditionally from acharya and did agnihotra/yajyen, name jaap of God and Ashtang yog practice as preached in Vedas. In turn, they realised God and got the knowledge by doing pious deeds while leading the family life, making their future happy and bright, according to Vedas. Then they further educated people about the same because it has been the benevolent nature of every learned person, who gains Vedic knowledge and experiences divine pleasure, to share it with others. About five-six thousand years ago, Rishis wrote six shastras, Upnishads, Mahabharat (including Bhagwad Geeta) and Valmiki Ramayan much before other holy books, based on the knowledge of Vedas. All these great writers – the Rishis, have eulogised Vedas in their literary works and based on their experience have admitted that Vedas are the divine voice of God.
That is why, Kapil Muni in his Sankhya shastra sutra 1/66 and Patanjali Rishi in his Yog shastra sutra 1/7 have shared their experience to educate us that the preach of any Rishi (Mantradrishta Rishi) is also considered as a proof to reach at truth. And also the holy books written by the Rishis based on Vedic culture are also considered as proof called ‘Partah Pramann’, Vedas being Swatah Pramann. Is it not our bad luck that the said secrets of Vedas are now mostly unknown to people and at this juncture, so called preach of any modern saint (sant who is against the Vedas) which does not tally with Vedic culture and which is definitely considered by learned of Vedas as totally false/unauthentic, is being accepted happily by the innocent public? If we consider impartially then we would find that the said matter is definitely harmful to the society, being against the Vedas because it does not come within the parameter of Vedic authenticity. Now, question is that who will bell the cat?
Duly indulged in illusion and mostly intention being after the materialistic articles etc., hardly anybody spares the time to study the literary works of Rishis like Upnishads, Shastras, Nighantu, Ashtadhyayee, Shatpath Brahmin Granth and above quoted holy books which contain abundant proofs of ved mantras.
Hence, when one will fail to study these great literary works of Rishis, under the guidance of learned acharya of Vedas, then naturally anyone will cast doubt over the Vedas which implies non-awareness of Vedic knowledge. Nowadays, people study the so-called spiritual books written by ordinary people but not those written by Rishis. It shall not out of place to mention here that Atharvaved mantra 7/105/1 preaches us to study Vedas or to study the spiritual books written by Rishi-Munis. The mantra strongly stresses not to study such books which are written by ordinary people. This secret has been made unknown to the public by several saints, by stating that Vedas, Yajyen and yogabhyas are difficult and need not to be studied/performed. People do not know that God states to study Vedas and perform daily agnihotra/Yajyen, name jaap of God and practice of Ashtang yog under the expert guidance of learned acharya.
Due to ignorance of the same, people are not able to understand that they are doing sins by not obeying the God’s order of studying Vedas and doing yajyen etc. On the other hand, they are accepting the juicy lecture of saints, who are against the Vedas and who are mostly professional. Moreover, all the present sects along with their pious books have emerged about two thousand to two thousand and five hundred years ago. As compared to this, Vedas have been on this earth since One Arab, ninety six crore, eight lakhs, fifty three thousand and one hundred and thirteen years. As mentioned above, Vedas are not a book. That is why, it has become difficult to repose faith in Vedas, in the absence of deep study under guidance of learned acharya of Vedas and Ashtang Yog.
Yet, it is a well-known fact spread by the tapasvis, Rishis-Munis by their preach and above quoted spiritual books that Vedas are eternal and immortal knowledge which emanate directly from God. This fact is even supported by renowned scientists like Maxmuller and many others who believe in authenticity of Vedas. It is further a well-known fact that Vedas have been preserved in world libraries with respect and honour, accepting Vedas as first and the most ancient literature. I mean to say that Vedas are the first knowledge which came on the earth. It was spread orally through the tradition of acharya and disciple, right from the beginning of the earth, as mentioned above. So, Vedas were remembered by heart by everyone. About five thousand three hundred years ago, for the first time, Vyas Muniji, who himself remembered the Vedas by heart traditionally, wrote them on Bhojpatra for the benefit of mankind. He completed the said pious task on the day of poornnima, about five thousand three hundred years ago. Since, then the poornnima has been named and remembered as Vyas Poornnima. Further, when printing press came into existence in sixteenth century, the Vedas written on Bhoj patra by Vyas Muniji were printed in the form of book which is called “Samhita” and not ved. Samhita means collection of ved mantras which has been printed. Half of the intellectuals of the world believe Vedas to be the divine voice of God and yet half of the intellectuals believe that Vedas have been written by some great scientist who has no parallel to himself in the entire world. But learned of Vedas know that God is the scientist of all scientists and no one is born even equivalent to such God nor shall be born in future. Then what to talk about being above the God.
It is also pertinent to mention here that a part of Bheeshma parv of Mahabharat have been secluded, named and printed as Bhagwad Geeta (eighteen chapters). Infact, Yogeshwar Sri Krishna Maharaj has praised and eulogised Vedas in Bhagwad Geeta. The above stated facts are known only to learned of Vedas. The saints who are ignorant of the knowledge of Vedas are naturally ignorant of the Vedas’ knowledge contained in Bhagwad Geeta and are therefore compelled not to explain the shloka of Bhagwad Geeta, briefly and truly wherein the reference and truth of Ved mantras exists. Why? Because they have not studied Vedas.
However, most of the present literary works and most of the saints are reiterating the fact that Vedas are divine voice of God. In this connection, Almighty, omnipresent, formless God has already stated in Atharvaved mantra 12/5/40 that those who do not study Vedas but take a piecemeal (portion) of Ved mantras, only which suits them, by means of studying other books etc., or listening from anywhere else [not based on traditional study of Vedas] will be punished by me (God).
Isn’t it surprising that yet no one is taking the initiative to study Vedas. On the contrary, those deeds which are against the Vedas and promote blind faith are being done on large scale. To experience the truth, we will have to revert back to Vedas.
As the Vedas are not sect, it is an eternal knowledge which is emanated direct from God. And God, His universal matters and therefore the knowledge of Vedas are for all human beings. I mean to say that God Himself says in Vedas to perform Yajyen/agnihotra daily from ved mantras by all human beings. And the said eternal/everlasting process was in vogue/in practice for the last more than one arab ninety-six crore years i.e., upto Mahabharat war. The study of the Rishis’ Vedic book like Manusmriti, Valmiki Ramayan and Mahabharat epic reveals that the Vedic knowledge was in vogue door to door due to the effect of knowledge of Vedas. There were no sects and no other path to be followed. It is our bad luck that after Mahabharat war the sun of Vedas (follow of Vedas) has been set down and against the Vedas several paths made by human beings have been made and we the Hindus have been forced that Ramayan, Bhagwad Geeta, Vedas, upnishads, shastras and other Sanskrit holy books written by ancient rishi-munis relates to us not others and we have accepted it with thanks.
Deepak: Swamiji charan sparsh I always follows veds and I just keep asking you because if someone ask me I can give reply to them , and if I have to follow idol than swamiji why I will ask you any question about ved, even like this I always keep my self in your blessings. Thanks. Your loving son. Deepak.
Swami Ram Swarup: My blessings to you. I appreciate your views my son because your process of discussing Vedic matter to others spreads the Vedic knowledge.