Suri: Dear Swami Ram Swarup Ji, I am very influenced by your writings. Sir, I have a doubt, According to Bhagavthgita lord Krishna is paramatma and he said he is heart of every living entity. My question is does he exist even in atoms of this non living material world.
Swami Ram Swarup: My blessings to you beta. According to vedas and the experiences of ancient as well as present Rishi-munis, Yogis, Avtarwad is not possible. So, God never takes Avtar. I paste my articles in this regard:-
God is formless
Being formless there is no need of statue or temple of God according to Vedas. As a matter of fact, you, I or every human being, lives in a body. Body is separate, we are called souls. Vedas say soul has no form even. Then also we know each other. For example even if you have not seen the photograph of King Akbar then, you can know Akbar by means of the study of his qualities. So is the case with the God. If an aspirant really goes to his Guru and listens Vedas like Shri Ram, and ancient kings and their public then he will be able to know hundred percent about formless God. Then comes realization for which Vedas (especially Samveda) says that he who performs Yajyen, does jaap (according to Vedas) and practises Ashtang Yoga Philosophy while remaining in family like Shri Ram etc., he sure realizes, being eternal law.
If we will meditate concentrating outside our body which is also against Vedas/Ashtang Yoga Philosophy, then our attention will always naturally remain outside i.e., attached with outer world i.e., decoration/music/dances etc. In that case subject matter of God will be over. It will be converted into spending fun, doing dances and singing attractive songs by ladies and gents, which is totally against Vedas. Thus the chapter of praising God, True Acharya, Rishi-Munis, performing Yajyen, practice of Ashtang Yoga, eternal knowledge of Vedas etc., will be over.
It is also baseless to say that study of Vedas and practice of yoga philosophy is difficult. It is self made story because Vedas are also called Shruti i.e., Vedas are to be listened first and not to be studied. So to listen to the Vedas, a learned Acharya is needed. The Acharya will explain the Ved mantras in the Yajyen in your own language i.e., in English or Urdu etc., and for an aspirant to do asan, pranayaam, meditation etc., is also not difficult. It is all difficult for those human beings, including present false prophets, (who are against the Vedas), who are lazy, can’t awake early in the morning to listen Vedas and fail to do practice of yoga philosophy. Those people are always after money, materialistic articles and pomp and show etc.
Vedas are not written or spoken by God. This knowledge is emanated from God and is originated in the heart of four Rishis as stated above. God is Almighty i.e., He has all powers. So He needs no assistance to do deeds of universe. In human body alive soul resides and soul is dependent, soul requires mouth to speak, eye to see, hand to write etc., etc. but not God. From His power God originates the knowledge of Vedas in the rishis without writing, or speaking etc. Vedas’ knowledge is divine. The fundamental of the Vedas is this that it was not written or spoken. The knowledge by the power of God was originated about one Arab 96 crore, 8 lakh and 53,111 years ago. Then first time the four rishis of nonsexual creation started pronunciation of the mantras by the power of God. God wanted them to know word meanings and sense of the mantras and therefore the rishis knew all. Then first time the four rishis started pronunciation of the mantras. They taught the mantras to other ignorant people. Then more rishis were produced who knew the Vedas by heart by listening only. There was no paper, ink or pen there. The Vedas were being learnt orally and traditionally this process is yet in force. But mostly not by heart but taking help of the printed book. So printed books are not called Vedas but these are called samhita.
Samhita means the collection of Ved mantras. Therefore Present printed books cannot be considered as Vedas and will never be in future, but samhita. Kapil Muni throws light on this point in his Sankhya Shastra sutra 5/48 that when a rishi does tapsya in the shape of Yajyen, study of Vedas, practice of Ashtang Yoga then the Ved mantras still (now also) originate in heart of the Rishi and the rishi pronounces the mantras. Those mantras are called Vedas, which emanate from God. So Vedas must first be listened (study) from alive Acharya (Guru who knows Vedas). Then only Samhita (books of Vedas) can help.
God is only one who creates the universe and no other can create the universe except God. Please think deeply is any one except God empowered for creation, etc.? The pious qualities of God are unlimited whereas qualities of soul, which resides in human body, are limited. That is why He is God. This fact is also mentioned by Rishi Patanjali in his Yog shastra sutra 1/24, “KALEASHKARAMVIPAKASHYAIHI APRAMRISHTAHA PURUSHVISHESHAHA ISHWARAHA” i.e., He who is not indulged in any sorrows/sufferings (kalesh), in any kind of deed (karma) and result thereof (vipakya), He is supreme in souls and is called Ishwar (God), whereas, soul is indulged in all the said matters according to deeds done in previous, and in the present life. So this is also a difference between God and souls and therefore soul can never be God based on the different qualities.
Amongst unlimited qualities of God, few may be enumerated-that God creates, nurses and destroys the universe. God is omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent and Almighty, beyond description, beyond imagination, and beyond calculation. Nobody on the earth can deny such qualities, but these qualities are to be discussed and considered deeply and he who does the same is called MUNI as per Vedas and shastras.
Let us think over one quality of God – Being Almighty. Almighty means God has all powers and thus God, to control the universe and to do any kind of deed for the same, can not be dependent on another, at any cost, being Almighty. Again shastras say, which is a true saying too, that there must be reason behind for any creation, matter etc. God is a reason to create the universe. Parents are the reason to give birth to a child. Ravana took Sita forcefully which became a reason for war between Shri Ram and Ravana etc. So as per Vedas there must be a reason of avtar and after studying eternal knowledge of Vedas and thinking deeply, there seems no reason to take avtar by Almighty God. As in Yajurveda mantra 2/26, so is in Shwetashwataropnishad shlok 6/8 wherein it is mentioned that there is no reason to form a God and thus God is also formless i.e., nobody can make God but God creates universe from non-alive prakriti. Secondly the said Upnishad says that the deeds of God of creation, nursing, and destruction of universe are eternal, natural, and automatic. So naturally God needs no avtar to destroy Kalyug, earth, or devils etc., being Almighty i.e., God has all powers and is independent. Not God but only His powers are enough to control, create, nurse, destroy the universe. That is why Upnishad says that God has no desire to create etc., but it is eternal and natural and this sort of desire is named “IKSHAN” and not desire to create etc.
Suppose God has to kill a devil and He takes avtar and God kills the devils by arrow etc. It means God is not Almighty and independent because God has taken help of Avtar (Human body) and arrow, gun, etc., which is impossible.
This all I have told based on fundamental law of eternal knowledge of four Vedas. Yet if anybody says about avtar then it is their own views and they are satisfied with their views and can not be commented because they could have been realizing at their own but so far as eternal knowledge of Vedas is concerned, Avtar is not possible.
Bhagwad Geeta is a preach based on Vedic knowledge. In Vedas, worship of a formless, omnipresent, omniscient God who creates, nurses and destroys the universe is preached. Vedas never tell about Avtarvad. Rigveda states that the laws of the Almighty God are firm and unchangeable. So, avtarvad is not possible, please. Actually, in Bhagwad Geeta, Sri Krishna Maharaj has not declared himself as God. He was a Yogeshwar. God manifests in the heart of Yogi, at this stage, yogi forgets himself and there is a provision that yogi who speaks from the side of God can declare himself as God.
In Vedas, it is clearly mentioned that until and unless a person listens/studies Vedas and obeys its preach under the guidance of a learned acharya, he can’t be a perfect person and thus he cannot make his life long and happy. Though all four Vedas teach worship but main and deep knowledge of worship is mentioned in Samveda and in 10th chapter shloka 22 , Yogeshwar Sri Krishna Maharaj also states that amongst four Vedas, he is Samveda. I mean to say, in Vedas, it is taught and stressed that one should only worship a formless, omnipresent, omniscient, Almighty God who creates, nurses and destroys the universe and again creates it. So, the process of creation and destruction is eternal. Vedas also state that because the God is Almighty, i.e., has unlimited powers and is unchangeable, so He remains always formless, omnipresent etc., and never takes Avtar (incarnation).
Yogeshwar Sri Krishna Maharaj along with Vyasmuniji were ardent followers of four Vedas. So neither Yogeshwar Sri Krishna Maharaj nor Vyasmuniji can accept Avtarvad. That is why, when a learned of Vedas studies or preaches Bhagwad Geeta, then he preaches the eternal truth and he never preaches about Avtarvad. Yogeshwar Sri Krishna Maharaj has also not declared himself as God in Bhagwad Geeta. Due to lack of knowledge of Vedas, mostly people accept Yogeshwar Sri Krishna Maharaj as God. I have written deep comments on Bhagwad Geeta’s first six chapters giving examples of ved mantras in each shloka.
However, Formless, Almighty God has nature of being Omnipresent which is unchangeable. So, Formless God also resides in atoms.