Rashmi: Swamiji, please comment on the saints who proclaim themselves to be God.
Swami Ram Swarup: My dear daughter, the answer of your question requires a great study of four Vedas. It is bad luck of our country that most of the people are under the influence of false prophets who are against the Vedas. In short, Vedas is knowledge which emanates direct from God at the time of the beginning of the earth. Why the said knowledge emanates because the Almighty, formless God who is one, creates the universe. Thereafter, He creates the living beings’ bodies. Rigveda mantra 10/129/ 1-6 throw light about creation that at that time, there was nothing and no living beings did exist. So there was no learned acharya who could give the knowledge to the newly created living beings like parents who educate the children to make them able to speak language and to know about the matters like crow, animals, chapati, ghee, sun, moon i.e., all matters of the world. See, if a newly born baby is managed to live in dense jungle and nursed well but he is not given education about the worldly matters etc. i.e., mathematics, science, animals, sun, moon etc., then even at the young age of 20-25, 30 years, he will not be able to speak any language and when he will be brought out of the cave of dense jungle and will be asked about the sun, moon, animals, birds before him, then he will not be able to reply because he was not given the said knowledge. So we will have to think deeply that how even the present saints, men, women, etc., know about the worldly matters, sun, moon, cooking, manufacture of building, engineering, present science, God etc., because until the knowledge is given, knowledge is not attained. So who has given them the knowledge? Naturally the present science and the holy books etc., have given the knowledge to the present population but from where the knowledge came and was printed in the present books of every matter because as said above, the knowledge is attained when it is given by someone. Then deep study and research will sure conclude that the knowledge in the shape of four Vedas emanates direct from God at the beginning of the earth i.e., in the non-sexual creation, as there was no alive Guru or acharya etc., at that time and knowledge is attained when it is given by Guru, acharya etc. So, our ancient Rishi Patanjali after studying Vedas and doing hard practice of Yajyen and ashtang yoga, etc., and thereafter realizing the Almighty God within his heart, states in his Yog shastra sutra 1/26, that Almighty God is the first Guru of four ancient Rishis of non-sexual creation. The Rishi clarify that God is above the death and birth and immortal. So after the destruction of the previous universe, mean everything is destroyed, yet Almighty God exists. The Almighty God is the supreme learned of Vedas which is but natural. The knowledge of Vedas emanates from the God and at beginning of creation of earth and is originated in the heart of four Rishis. This pious action of God is also eternal/ everlasting. In Vedas, there are three types of knowledge. Rigveda contains knowledge of all types of science, Yajurveda form/nature of all types of deeds, Samveda teaches how to worship God truly, Atharvaveda states the truth about the said three Vedas including knowledge of Almighty God and brief knowledge of medical science. However, here it should be noted that the knowledge of God has been explained in four Vedas too. And the main motto of the four Vedas is to make the human beings to realize God, but realization is not possible until the knowledge of the above said three matters knowledge i.e., science, deeds, worship is attained from four Vedas. So the deep study of four Vedas will only make an aspirant able to understand the fact that all knowledge even right from that of straw to Almighty God is given in Vedas by God for the benefit of the human beings. Otherwise, God could merrily create the non-alive creation and give the birth in the shape of living beings. Then it could happen like tribals (Bheel), generation of dense jungle who are still living naked, do not make houses, do not cook, do not know about science, mathematics, etc., because they have not been given the said knowledge as yet. Now, we come on the point when anyone will be able to study the Vedas from an acharya then he will only be able to know the main object of God and Vedas that God is omnipresent, Almighty omniscient, omnipresent, He creates, nurses and destroys the universe and again creates (Rigveda mandal 10 sukta 129 refers). Secondly, the most important knowledge from Vedas will be gathered that there are three matters which are not made by anybody and cannot be destroyed, i.e., they are everlasting and see the said three matters are always separate from each other, based on their eternal qualities. Those are — Almighty God, souls and prakriti. Now Vedas tell the qualities of God. We take only Yajurveda mantra 40/8 in which God Himself states that God is omnipresent, Almighty, needs no assistance from anybody to create, nurse and destroy the universe, He is formless and has no nervous system etc., like a man. He is the purest and never indulged to face the result of any deeds like human beings. He is the witness of everything, He knows personally about all matters of universe and living beings. He gives the punishment to sinners and defaulters of Vedas. He has no mother, father, as He has not been made by anyone. So God is neither made by anyone, nor anything is made from God. However, God makes the universe from prakriti as stated above but nothing is made from God. Knowledge of four Vedas has been created by God for the benefit of all human beings. Here it is to be noted that the qualities of God are unlimited out of which few qualities have been stated above from Yajurveda mantra 40/8. So either saint or any person should not declare the additional qualities of God at his own. For-example— Yajurveda mantra 27/36 states that no one was born or will born even equivalent to God. So we should never declare ourselves as God which shall even be against the Vedas and thus we shall annoy the God whose one name is "RUDRA" i.e., He gives punishment to the defaulters of Vedas. As regards the qualities of souls, soul is not omnipresent. Dear daughter, we, you are in a place in Bombay, even you can’t be present in any other place of Bombay. But God is everywhere. Soul takes body to face the result of his deeds and faces sorrows and happiness whereas not God. God creates but not the soul. God is a form of divine pleasure but not the soul because he has to face the sorrows, tensions, sickness etc. The qualities of soul in Vedas is limited but God has unlimited qualities. As regards prakriti it is non-alive mater from which universe is created. So there are three matters, which is called Tretvad in Vedas, which is according to God’s Vedic knowledge and we, the human beings must follow the same. So, no one can be God. God and souls are alive whereas prakriti is non-alive. God creates the universe when a portion of His power acts in non-alive prakriti. It will be cleared that soul can never be God and soul can not create even a simple leaf of a plant then what to talk about the creation of universe. So those who claim themselves as God are ignorant about the true knowledge of four Vedas and therefore they may say at their own, whatever they want. But Rigveda mantra 2/38/9 clearly states that fundamental law of creation/nature can never be changed. I also paste my article on Gurus for your information: About Gurus There is only one God who creates universe, nurses and destroys and again creates. Yajurveda mantra 31/7 and several other Ved mantras say that God has preached His worship in Vedas. But now a day’s most of the worships are against Vedas, as also said by Tulsidasji in his Ramayana couplet 99 (b). In the ancient times up to Mahabharat period too there were only Vedas to be adopted and worship in the form of prayer, Yajyen and Ashtang yoga etc., was being practised. The ancient Rishis Munis used to give Vedas knowledge only. They lived in Gurukul in a very simple life holding unlimited knowledge of Vedas and yoga philosophy and by their Tapsya they used to give equal blessings to the world. These Rishis Munis used to sit on one platform with whole hearted happiness. For example in Valmiki Ramayana when Rishi Vishwamitr went to King Dashrath to take Shri Ram to kill the demons to protect his holy Yajyen. Then Dashrath immediately refused but Dashrath’s Guru Vashisth Muni interrupted, explained and gave order to king Dashrath to give Shri Ram to Rishi Vishwamitr. I am not giving the detailed story here. So what was the reason behind? The reason behind was only this, that Rishi Vishwamitr as well as Guru Vashisth both were philosophers of Vedas, Yajyen and Yoga philosophy. So there was no friction within their hearts. A mother and father both, without any friction, love their newly born baby. So when all Rishis loved only one Almighty God, from whom Vedas are originated and again the Rishis loved Vedas, so no question of friction. The Rishis used to bless all people and even kings with the result everybody was happy at that time and everybody was rich with the blessings. Now it is reverse. The so-called Gurus are rich and most of the people are poor. In Hinduism too there are so many Devtas and thus the different types of worship. Now whatever one Guru says another one criticizes because ways are different and in reality the religion has been made profession by most of the so-called Gurus at present. When target is not true and good then how the above story of donating Shri Ram can be repeated and how all Gurus can sit on one platform. When the target is profession and not services of people through Vedas then it is impossible that so called Gurus can sit on one platform. The so-called Gurus can say at their own that their target is one but on ground it seems not to be a true. All the so-called Gurus have made their own several ashrams to command etc. God has made universe and blessed us human body to do pious deeds only. He has not made any heaven or hell. All have to face the result of their deeds good or bad here only, even by taking rebirth. God has not only made universe but has also given knowledge of four Vedas. There are four Vedas: 1. Rig Veda gives knowledge of science, matters of the universe like sun, moon, air body etc., etc. 2. Yajurveda gives knowledge of all the deeds and duties to be performed by men or women, students, leaders, king, agriculturist etc., etc., etc. 3. Samveda gives knowledge how to worship God, who gives peace and long happy life etc. In this Ved, details of Yoga philosophy, qualities, Supreme deeds and nature of the God are also given. 4. Atharvaveda gives details of God, medical science and details of medicine etc. Actually in four Vedas there is unlimited knowledge. In his holy book Shatpath Brahmin Granth, Muni Yaskacharya has quoted that there was Kashyap Rishi who studied Vedas deeply. In Vedas there is a rule that men or women can extend their lives up to 400 years and not more. In this connection Yajurveda mantra 3/62 refers. So when Kashyap Rishi became of hundred years he prayed to God that he is busy in study of Vedas therefore his age may be extended up to two hundred years. But reaching on two hundred years he again requested to extend further hundred years because the Rishi had been experiencing unlimited peace and merriment while studying Vedas and going the deepest in every mantra. And O! When he reached at the age of three hundred years he prayed God that he (Rishi) is leaving body because the knowledge of the Vedas are eternal and unlimited. So such true examples of several ancient Rishis are there in our ancient holy books about immortal Vedas, which have been now overlooked due to false talks of arrogant of nowadays who have made business of religion. So swamis are those, who are not against eternal philosophy of Vedas and yoga given by God. And the swamis, who speak truth based on Vedas, do yoga practice, have control on their five senses and mind, always do pious deeds according to Vedas about well being of human beings etc., and such types of swamis never predict about any life. But give direct knowledge of four Vedas and yoga saying that do pious deeds, services to parents and old, daily worship, hard working towards a right path, listening of Vedas’ preach and discharging moral duties faithfully towards family and nation etc., make future bright and luck is in our own hands. According to eternal knowledge of Vedas, the definition of a true Guru is not such which is being spread by the false saints, who are against the Vedas and yoga philosophy. One thing is clear that this universe has been created by God, He nurses and destroys and again creates. So the rules and regulation will have to be accepted of God’s preach in Vedas and not of man or woman. I think on this basis only, Tulsidasji has also stated in Doha 99 (b) of Uttrakand that in Kaliyug men and women are not worshipping God in accordance with the Vedas’ true path but arrogant have made the path at their own accord i.e., self made. And hence the problem, because such type of religion has become profession too and no Guru or whatsoever would like to sit on one platform being against the Vedas such Gurus are saying and establishing falsely that they are serving the people but actually they are serving their family and themselves. When I was doing practice of hard Ashtang Yoga in a dense cave with my Guru ji then an incident occurred. By some reason I was asked by My Guruji to go to a Baba in the jungle to give him Bhiksha. When first day I went there the young Baba met me with gun. I put question to the Baba with respect that why he is having gun being a sanyasi. He answered that there are five or six guava trees on which some monkeys come. So this gun is meant for establishing fear and to drive away the monkeys. I returned and told the story to my respected Guruji. My Guruji answered that whole of the day the Baba guards the trees and when thus he would have been sitting for meditation or remembering the holy name of God then it is sure that in his meditation the picture of monkeys would be coming. I have quoted this fact in full (here not in full) to my spiritual books stating that this is a matter of some guava trees which disturbs the concentration then what to talk about those who have so many ashrams, duly built all over the country, even outside also? The spiritualism nowadays has been a business and it is no more a matter of God or services to the public. Nowadays there is flood of Gurus who are against the Vedas and this is a danger to the mankind, nation and world. This is clearly seen that the house has been burnt with its own burning lamp. There is no any excuse from the God about any sin in the Vedas whereas self made path says like this. However, the Yagya with Ved mantras purifies the mind and practice of yoga philosophy burns all the previous sins. And this is only possible when an aspirant, while in family life listens Vedas like Shri Ram, Mata Sita and previous ancient public, does Yagya, learns yoga philosophy and practices thereof under the guidance of a Guru who knows Vedas and yoga philosophy. This is method of eternal prayer. One should pray God with a request that he must be attached with the eternal worship of God preached in Vedas to get the purest mind because the purest mind can only do the pious deeds and eternal worship. This prayer is according to Yajurveda mantra 32/14 and Gaytri mantra. One can recite these two mantras also. But to our bad luck, most of the present Gurus, who are against Vedas say that they are true Gurus and everybody must accept them because Shri Ram and Shri Krishna also did accept Guru. But the ignorant people are not capable to understand this poisonous and false talk due to lack of knowledge of Vedas and Valmiki Ramayana. Because Shri Ram, Shri Krishna, king Dashrath, Harishchandra and several such dignitaries and their public of ancient time did accept the Rishis, Munis who knew Vedas and did hard practice of ashtang yoga. For example Shri Ram’s Guru was Vashisth Muni and Munis are those who have studied and consulted Vedas in deep and did yoga practice and so was the great Muni Vashisth. Shri Krishna’s Guru was Rishi Sandeepan. Rishi in Vedas is, he who is mantradrishta i.e., after studying and hard practice of ashtang yoga he has realized God and has seen the Ved mantras in his heart and not in books. Both Rishis and Munis/yogis always preach based on Vedas. So, public as well as the Govt., must know about the eternal philosophy of Vedas and must ban the present saints or sadhus who are against the Vedas, spread false stories and cheat the public. These saints must not encash the name of pious Guru Vashisth and Sandeepan and others by saying that Shri Krishna and Shri Ram did Guru so everybody must accept these so called Gurus. Why don’t they say truth that they are illiterate being away from the Vedas. Guru Vashisth and Rishi Sandeepan and other ancient Rishis were literate having knowledge of four Vedas and yoga philosophy. And there is no other comparison between those ancient Rishis, Munis/Yogis and present so-called Gurus. In Atharvaveda mantra 4/1/1 and 10/10/28 say that the Vedas emanate from God. Yoga shastra sutra1/7 wants proof of the truth. Vedas are self-proof because in 31 chapter of Yajurveda and mandal 10 of Rigveda it has been clarified that the knowledge of Vedas is given at the beginning of creation in unsexual creation. Shastra, Upnishad, Geeta and Ramayana have been written by Rishi Munis within five to six thousand years whereas Vedas are eternal and in this creation Vedas originated in the heart of four Rishis cited above about one Arab 96 crore 8 lakh 53 thousands years ago. Now the fundamental is this that until the knowledge is given by anybody, knowledge can not be gained. So who was the first Guru at the beginning of the earth when unsexual creation was there? Yoga shastra sutra 1/26 says, "SA ESHAH POORVESHAM API GURUHU KALENANVACHEDAT" in this sutra Rishi Patanjali says Sa Eshah= He i.e., God (because this sutra is connected with previous one), Poorvesham Api Guruhu= is Guru of the four ancient Rishis because God is away from Kalean i.e., death. It means in the said creation there was no Guru alive. So the God gave the knowledge of Vedas to the said four Rishis. After lapse of more than one arab 96 crore and 8 lakhs years i.e., upto Mahabharat period there were no shastras, Upnishads etc., and same were written by Rishis based on the knowledge of Four Vedas and this fact has clearly been mentioned by the Rishis in their shastras and Upnishads and Geeta etc. Geeta shlok 3/15 refers. And nobody asked any proof about the origin of Vedas because they (king and public) used to study only Vedas with whole heart and faith, Vedas being the knowledge direct from God. This knowledge is still originated in the heart of present Rishis like Vyas Muni, Atri Rishi etc., but nowadays people are against the Vedas due to false statements of several present Gurus. First proof is considered from Vedas only and thereafter six shastras, Upnishads, Geeta etc., the holy books written by mantradrishta Rishis based on the knowledge of Vedas. If Vedas would not have been there then no knowledge of shastra etc., could be written. Shri Gurubani too says, "VED ONKAAR NIRMAY" i.e., Vedas’ knowledge are direct from God. Four Vedas have been made by God. No one can evaluate there importance. They are inestimable and eternal. (Mahalla 1 shabad 17). And in Samveda mantras it has been clarified the knowledge of four Vedas is from Almighty God. I have mentioned some other references also in my Yoga lectures placed on www.vedmandir.com and request to see please. Now come on shastra please. Sankhya shastra 5/48 says, "APAURUSHYA" i.e., Vedas are apaurushya i.e., no man has written the Vedas, it is of God. Manusmriti shlok 1/23, "AGNIVAAYURAVIBHAYSTU TRYAM BRAHM SANATANAM DUDOH YAJSIDHYARTHAMRIGYAJUHU SAAMLAKSHNAM" Meaning: Yajsidhartham = the God for Yajyen and to spread knowledge of all matters etc., gave the Vedas’ knowledge Agni-Vaayu-Ravibhya and from these Rishis the Brahma studied Rig, Yaju, Sam Vedas, dudohah = just like milking of cow, so here three names are mentioned because of gyan, karma and upasana, the three Vidya but the fourth Veda Atharvaveda originated in Angira Rishi, is automatically counted along with said three Vedas. But the Rigveda mantra cited above already says about four Rishis and then no need of shastra, upnishad etc., Vedas being self-proof.
In Shatpath Brahmin Granth 3/7/3/10, written by Yask Muni it is said, "VIDWANS HI DEVAHA" i.e., he who is learned of Vedas, he is called Dev. Yajurveda mantra 40/3 says, "ASURYA NAAM TE LOKAHA ANDHEN TAMSA VRITAHA___"means on taking birth a child is called "Manushya" i.e., mankind. If he learns Vedas, does pious deeds and discharges his moral duties well, according to Vedas then he becomes Dev. Otherwise Asur i.e., devil (demon), one who kills the pure voice of soul and does sins. In Van Parv of Mahabharat Yaksh asked question to Yudhisthar, "KAH NASTIKAH" i.e., who is called atheist? Yudhisthar answers, he who is against and insults Vedas he is atheist (Manusmriti 2/11 also refers). So there are two kinds of men/women according to Yajurveda mantra quoted above. One, "DEV" and second "DEVIL". So our birth is to become Dev. Rig-Veda mantra 10/181/1 says that in the beginning of the creation, God always originates the knowledge of four Vedas in the heart of four Rishis, then the said four Rishis spread it further and until now the eternal knowledge of Vedas is being received traditionally. The names of those four Rishis are — Agni, Vaayu, Aditya, Angira, as also mentioned in Rig Veda mantra 10/109/1 and Manusmriti shlok 1/23. This truth is also mentioned in Bhagwad Geeta wherein shlok 3/15 says that Vedas emanate from Almighty God and in shlok 13/4 Shri Krishna says that the knowledge of soul and body is very well mentioned in four Vedas and the Rishis have described the same by many methods. In Atharvaveda mantra 2/35/1& 4 it is preached that Rishis spread the knowledge of holy Yagya (Yajyen) to the people to kill their sorrows and Rishis are those, "MANTRADRISHTA ITI RISHIHI" i.e., those who have studied Vedas and Ashtang Yog practice and then realized Almighty God and seen Ved mantras in their heart, they are called Rishis. So the knowledge of the Vedas, as per Rig-Veda mantras quoted above, is given by God Himself to the Rishis and it is eternal truth and cannot be changed that is why in Yog shastra sutra, Rishi Patanjali says, "SA ESH PURVESAHM API GURUHU". So, next to God is Rishi. God did not give the knowledge to the present saints. In Vedas, the name of the learned are mentioned as Rishis, Muni, Vipra, Dwij, Agni etc., and not saints. To be next to God it is necessary to have full knowledge of Vedas and Ashtang yoga, as per the rules quoted above. To know that what is true and what is false, proof is required. Yog shastra in sutra 1/7 says about four proofs within which proof of Vedas to determine the truth is compulsory. However, it makes no difference that if a present saint has learnt four Vedas, done ashtang yoga practice mentioned in Vedas and realized Vedas and God, then he is also next to God. If one declares his name Rishi or Brahamchari and does not know Vedas and yoga philosophy, then he is liar and cheating the public because in Shanti Parv of Mahabharat also Bhisham Pitamaha says to Yudhisthar that there are two kinds of Braham (though God is one). First, "Shabad Braham" i.e., knowledge of four Vedas, second "Par Braham" the realization of formless God Who creates, nurses and destroys the universe. So he who does not know Braham even Shabad Braham – Vedas, then how can he write himself as brahamrishi? Naturally he is cheating the public because most of the public does not know about Vedas and the arrogant (the saints who are against Vedas) have spread false knowledge about Vedas, Yajyen and yoga philosophy. That is why, Manusmriti 2/168 says that the saint/Guru/Dwij who does not know Vedas but studies false books, he, in his present life goes downwards i.e., experiences sorrows, sufferings etc, etc., with his followers, i.e., their followers also go down and experience the said difficulties etc., but nowadays it is also spread that God takes examination of a worshipper but such type of examinations have not been mentioned in Vedas. And Ramayana also says about such false saints – VARAN DHARAM NAHIN ASHRAMCHARI, SHRUTI VIRODH RAT SAB NAR NARI. Tulsidasji says that at present men and women here have become against the eternal knowledge of Vedas. Again Tulsidasji says in Uttrakand DWIJ SHRUTI BECHAK BHOOP PRAJSAN, KAU NAHIN MAN NIGAM ANUSASAN, i.e., at present mostly the people do not accept the knowledge of Vedas, present saints Gurus have sold the Vedas i.e., they do not know the ABCD about the Vedas. Again in Shatpath Brahmin Granth 1/7/5/3 it is said that he who studies complete knowledge of Vedas and holy books, puts the preachings thereof into action/conduct and there after preaches others, he is called a Rishi. It is a well-known fact that ancient Rishis used to live in a lonely place/jungle in Gurukuls/Ashram where the students used to get knowledge traditionally. The same process too was adopted by Shri Krishna, Sudama, Shri Ram and their public. It was the effect of Ved mantras on them and the effect of practising Ashtang yoga philosophy that they used to lead simple way of life without any luxury etc. whereas nowadays, the current saints (against the Vedas) mostly live in bigger cities, where way of earning is obtained. The Rishis used to bless the people according to Ved mantra to be the richest and having all comforts in the family etc., whereas now most of the present saints say that money will do nothing, family will do nothing, house will do nothing, cars and clothes will do nothing and they themselves take lot of money and enjoy luxuries. The Rishis were free from illness/tension etc., Shwetashwaropnishad 2/12 and 13 says about this fact. So is it not clear that keeping the fact and proof of Ved mantra and the said upnishad in mind, those are not rishi-muni etc., who are suffering from multifarious diseases, tension etc., and too lack the knowledge of four Vedas and Ashtang yoga philosophy mentioned in Vedas. Study of Mahabharat, holy granth and Valmiki Ramayan reveals that usually the ancient Rishis, who lived in gurukul or in jungle used to go to the kingdom on invitation only. (Valmiki Ramayan Bal Kand sarg 7 also refers). So it is not fair to send disciples door to door to collect money and to arrange maximum gathering/crowd. The Rishis like Vyas Muni etc., used to go mostly on foot and alone to anywhere (Mahabharat says) but now the present saints/Gurus go in a fleet of cars/groups with body guards etc., etc. The Rishis themselves had simple living without luxury etc., but with their blessings they made people the richest whereas most of the present saints have become the richest with all luxury, gathering money/donation etc., from even poor people and public seems to be poor. In Brihadarnayk Upnishad there is a debate (shastrarth) between Bal Brahamcharini Gargi and Rishi Yagvalkya. This debate was organized by King Janak. The winner of debate was to be given 500 cows, gold-plated on horns. When Rishi Yagvalkya ordered his disciples to take the cows then King Janak interrupted and requested the Rishi that these cows are meant for him who will win the debate with my supreme Acharya Gargi. King asked the Rishi whether he (Rishi) is Brahamrishi. Yagvalkya Rishi answered, O! King there was shortage of milk in my Gurukul to my students and that is why I wanted to take the cows. But if you want to ask something I am ready. There was a debate and Rishi won and got cows. This story tells that all Rishis used to ask for donation when they needed whereas present saints even having become multimillionaires through donation, ask for more money. In Upnishad king Janshruti met with Rishi Rakya in lonely place sitting on sand under the shadow of Bullock cart. Whereas present saints meet people sitting on highly decorated and valuable throne. Rishi Jadbharat was sitting alone in a jungle on the earth. When he was asked to carry the palanquin (palki) putting one side on his shoulder, then he immediately became ready without any pride and walked on foot. Mostly now this cannot be repeated. There are maximum examples of the ancient Rishis who were Tapsvi, lovers of truth, who are adorable.