Ram Suri previous reply: The ‘Amanava purusha’ described in Chandogya Upanishad 5.10.2 guides the soul to god (‘maasebya samvatsaram ….vidyu tam tatpurusho amanavaha sa yena brahma gamayatyasha devayanah pandah iti’). The meaning of this is that the soul travels from months to the year, from year to sun, from sun to moon, and from moon to lightening. Then from the region of Brahman, a non-human person, created from mind (for creation from mind, please see Br. Up. 6.2.15 – tatpurusho manas yetya brahma lokaa.) comes and guides the soul to Brahma lok. Sir! I humbly request you to read this particular reference and reply me. So that we both can start our discussion from that point onwards. Also please see, Chh. Up. 4.15.5 for the same description. Also, I request you too look Br. Up 6.2.15 for the same description. I, once again request you to give very specific and clear replies. This will also help to all people.
Swami Ram Swarup: Reply is given below please.
Previous Ans from Swamiji: In this connection I have mentioned the meaning of Archi above.
Ram Suri present reply: I am not asking the meaning of Archi please. I know its meaning. It gives me an impression that now you are trying to evade the discussion by not giving concrete answer to this question. I am sure that you did not look the references I quoted from Br. Up. and Ch. Up above. After reaching the moon, the soul goes to lightening. From here, the topic of amanav purush comes into the picture, as per Br. Up. 6.2.15 – tatpurusho manas yetya brahma lokaa). You can also find the same topic in Chh. Up. 5.10.2.
Swami Ram Swarup: Your views are not acceptable please. You and I or anybody is free always to quote words or meaning or anything but it does not mean that I am forcing youbto accept an do not know the meaning. This archi word, I have explained again below. You may send unlimited questions this is your right and my right is to reply as per my views. So your above views are not understood please. Please make the atmosphere sweet and calm.
Ram Suri: Now, let us see the following: Who is this person referred in the above two quotes? He is the amanav purush. Right? Where was he said to have come from in the above references? He came from Brahma Lok. Right? (Please see Br. Up. 6.2.15 – tatpurusho manas yetya brahma lokaa). Please do not say that this Brahma Lok is nothing but the physical body like that. The physical body is already dead, and thus the soul is traveling on devyan marg, and taken to Brahma Lok. That means this Brahma Lok is not representing the physical body now. Right? Where will this amanav purush lead this soul to? He will lead this soul to Brahma Lok (Please see ‘yena brahma gamayati’Chh. Up. 5.10.2). Right? Please do not skip this discussion by saying that this soul does not need any assistance or like that. I am not saying that this soul requires assistance. The above references from Br. Upanishad and Chh. Upanishads are saying that. Right? Also please do not say here that Vedas donot say this or do not say that or it is against to Vedas like that. You have said previously that you have studied only 11 Upanishads (IsH, KEN, KATH, PRASHAN, MUNDAK, MANDUKYA, ETRAIYA, TETRIYE, CHHANDOGYA, BRIHIDARNAYAK AND SWETASHWTAR), which are based on Vedas. If you do not believe this, please refer your answers, posted to me on March 11, 2004. In this posting, you have given this answer. Since, my above two quotes are from Chh. Up. and Bri. Up., now you cannot say that the above references are against Vedas. Now, my question for you is that who is this Brahman to whom the amanav purush has taken this soul to? Please answer to this question. From now on, this discussion will be much more interesting for all of us. Therefore, let us confine to this topic and please answer your response soon.
Swami Ram Swarup: As I have quoted above now, you and I can not suppress anybody else to make control of use toexpress. Please don’t force me saying about Vedas etc. I also can not force you to express anything. I will say whatever I want and you will say whatever you want and I have regard on your questions but I will not say you to have regard on my answer but would request you not to force me to tell this and that as told above. Hope please you will not mind. Because wehave to maintain love and brotherhood at all level otherwise discussion will be over. Please excuse me if I have hurt your heart. But my request is simple and must not hurt your heart. My blessings and namaste to you.
Brihadarnyak Upnishad says in second Brahmin Shwetketu son of an Acharya reached a king of Panchal country, king Pravahann put question to shwetketu if he knows that after death where the soul goes and how again comes to this lok and what is Pitriyaan and Devyaan marg. Based on vedic philosophy the king is teaching Acharya Gautam that the learned person whoknows Vedas and knos the science of five fires or the sanyasi who has left home and ha sgone to jungle in a lonely place to worship God with trust (shradha), they both attain first the stage of Archi. Here archi means “AHAN = AHANIK” i.e., the stage of merriment. But the worldly meaning of archi is light. So first to be a learned of Vedas and knower of five fires or a sanyasi who lives in a dense jungle and does worship with trust, is necessary. The meaning of “shradha = shrat+dha iti shradha ” shrat means truth i.e., Almighty and formless God and none else. Such like souls go to Devlok as I have already quoted the Yajurveda chapter 39.Then a manomaye Purush carries such souls to brahmlok. But the meaning of manomaye Purush is the utmost and unlimited realization of merriment (Brahmanand) and this stage makes sure for such souls to realize God. Such souls then remain in brahmlok i.e., attains moksh.
In Chhandogya Upnishad 5/10/2 all has been said according to the 39th chapter of Yajurveda which I have already explained before. Then the upnishad say that the soul of leartned is having the result of unlimited auspicious/pious deeds andstating the world TAT PURUSHAHA AMANAVAH here the amanav means, based on the unlimited rtesult of pious deeds, such souls attain Brahm i.e., immersed in Braham and this is called Devyaan marg; that the soul has attained the God/immersed in Anand, gyan and Jyotiswarup Brahm. But the soul has not become Brahm. This happens like a swimmer who dives in the water infull for sometime and then again comes out. Chhandogya Upnishad 5/10/1,2 says, “ARCHISM ABHI SAMBHAVNTI” i.e., such souls divert towards Archism i.e., jyoti (light) i.e., they become like jyotiswarup. So such learned souls are themselves archi and amanav. Here learnes souls means the soul of a Yogi- Rishi or Muni who has attained Brahm and has got moksh such i.e.,merriment of salvation. Amanav means he who is lack of proud and is humble. In this connection Sankhya shastra sutra 3/78 to 82 which I have quoted before also states that the learned soul while living in body become jeevanmukt. Because if he is not alive then who will give the real knowledge to the aspirants. Otherwise sutra 3/81 says that there will be a tradition of blind faith.
Chhandogya Upnishad 4/15/5 says such learned soul who has attained salvation, when dies then whether his cremation wherte the dead body met with fire are performed or not is immaterial because his soul has attained salvation or eternal jyoti. Thereason is that when his body is burnt then his body is put into fire and such cremation is not done then yet the soul of learned has already attain salvation and jyoti (light). Because funeral is meant for body and not for soul. First his soul becomes archi i.e., ray of light then the light increases like day light then light increases land becomes like a light of Puranmasi (jyoti), it increases further light becomes of six months then years and then becomes like Aditya i.e.,the soul’s light seems to be light equivalent to Aditya (sun). Then from Aditya jyoti to chandra jyoti and chandra jyoti to vidyut jyoti and this process the soul of manav itself becomes a manav. Now please send your comments.
I have given this reply based on Vedas and upnishads comments by Vidya Martand Dr. Satyavrat Sidhantalankaar Ex. M.P. and vice chancellor, Gurkul Kangri University. If you can study, please study these Upnishads, if not then it is okay because it is not compulsion. The eternal knowledge are four Vedas and 11 upnishads quoted by you above also have been written by those Rishis and even Bhagwat Geeta, who were the philosopher of four Vedas and ashtang yog philosopjhy. And those Rishis have mentioned in the upnisahd and six shastras and Geeta that they first gained knowledge from Vedas and practiced ashtang yog then they wrote the said holy books. So it is my opinion and not compulsion that before studying the said holy books the study of Vedas and practice of ashtang yog is a compulsion to know the real meaning of the words of the said holy books. It is my opinion and cannot not be forced on anybody please. Yog shastra sutra 1/7 clearly asks the proof of Ved mantra on anybody’s views to justify the truth. Now I have totally finished the matter of archi and amanav from my side only please.